theophilus

But you have to see that this is pure subjectivism and, in a very real sense, selfish.

Your earlier post implied that the "ultimate" question is how we treat others. I simply pointed out that it only matters, ultimately, if there is something transcendent and enduring about human existence. If your death is the end of your existence, then it matters not a whit how you treated others or how they treated you.

haverbob

Oh humble Disciple. Please grant thee one question. Have you ever had the guts to tell God that you don't need him? "That's right God, I don't need you". Why do you need God (or Jesus) anyway? If you answer that for me, I can provide you with a few observations in another message. Maybe you will find it interesting.

theophilus

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You'll have to forgive Mageth, he's been (and evidently remains) confused about my position.

I don't think I ever said that "all knowledge is unknowable" - whatever that means.

Yes, knowledge is impossible apart from some apriori informaiton. It cannot be derived from either sensation or reason. This is not my position, it is the inescapable conclusion of a materialistic worldview.

The fact that we do "know" things is evidence that we all know God and assume the truth of his revelaiton, even while denying it.

BTW, how do you explain IRONY as a materialistic entity?

haverbob

BANG!! Clink!! Lock the door and throw away the key. Perhaps you can tell me that my dog knows God because it "knows" things. It knows that it shit in my living room and knows that I will not be particularly happy with that (as evidenced by the fact that it puts it's head down when it goes near it as to suggest regret). How can one KNOW the truth of God's revelation, if one can't interpret it correctly. God can never be known, only experienced. If you think you KNOW God, then surely you are looking at somebody or something else, but it ain't God.

Disciple

I am indeed awareof this concept. This centers around the idea that the person proposing a belief or idea has the burden of proof, rather than the person who does not believe...

Disciple

This does indeedsounds potentially interesting....

I could not tell God that, because I *do* need him and I believe we all do. Jesus is the way to deep and meaningfull peace with ourselves, with others and with our divine creator. Do you know the real meaning of peace? It is beyond description and is a state of heart & mind, given freely by grace. Its awesome I promise, and I am of the opinion that this level of peace cannot be found ANYWHERE except through Christ. Jesus is the only way to the divine father, and everlasting love and security.

Please do offer me your observations and thank you =)

yguy

As someone else has pointed out, people of other religions claim similar feelings. Fundamentalists Christians seem to think those feelings are tricks of the devil. How do you know the feelings you have aren't the same thing masked with a thin veneer of pseudo-Christianity?

haverbob

Hold on to your hat because I'm going to tell you something that I believe no one has ever told you before (based on your response). You do not love God. Sorry about that, truth can be painful. You cannot love ANYTHING that you NEED. You think you are loving something, but if you need it as well, then you are actually loving the fulfillment of your need which ultimately translates into love of one's self. That's the funny, unexplainable and wonderful feeling that you have been talking about this whole time.

Don't feel bad, it's a hard thing to avoid doing. We all do it. Just REALLY give what I said some thought. See beneath the surface of what I'm suggesting and look at yourself in the mirror and be HONEST with yourself. It's not so bad. In fact, it can be wonderful!! Look at it this way. At least you just lost an obstacle to loving God (or Jesus). Perhaps now, or in the future you may get to REALLY love God.

Calzaer

This one made me smile

The feeling lent by believing in Christ, or any of the other "Gods", is the resultant feeling you get whilst believing in a God or creator and the trust, love and acceptance that comes with that.

Whilst we may feel these feelings, they are of a similar ilk to the man who thinks he loves a girl, only to find that he does not. They appear real and are the result of aspiring toward the divine.

These believers of other religions almost have it. They are looking upwards and that is good, but they are looking in slightly the wrong direction. Vishnu is the door way to eternity...

haverbob

When you say eternity, do you mean living forever or do you mean constantly living in the present moment? Everlasting means forever (forever lasting, which denotes time). Eternal means timeless. Are you speaking of the continuity of the present moment?