Shadowy Man

How can you have a "right to life" if you aren't allowed to take your own?

Doesn't it then become a "responsibility"?

winstonjen

More like a duty.

Alonzo Fyfe

I actually have a very harsh reaction to this type of argument. I do not see how "guilting" somebody into enduring persistent and unavoidable pain (e.g., caused by a terminal cancer) is in any way a sign of 'love" for that person. It is pure and simple. "Your duty is to suffer through great agony so that I don't have to deal with your death."

That's not love. Love means wanting the best for the other person, not the best for yourself at their expense.

Not all suicides are justified. Where the request for suicide can be attributed to a defined mental illness, then suicide is fine. But where there is doubt, the person whose life is under consideration should be given the benefit of the doubt in these matters, just as we give them the benefit of the doubt in all others.

Buddrow_Wilson

They make for good cannon fodder.

winstonjen

Instead of finding reasons for the depressed person to not die, why don't they find reasons for them TO LIVE? That seems much more considerate and caring to me.

Wouldn't it just lead to more soldiers killed for deserting?

Diotima

Ah! One of my favorite topics!

Suicide used to be a capital offense in many countries; it still is in some, “coincidentally” in those with strong religious tradition (Italy-Roman Catholic Church, Greece-Orthodox Greek Church) although the Law is rarely -almost never- enforced.

I think that we all agree that the so-called “Judeo-Christian ethic” has, broadly speaking, undoubtedly been the primary intellectual/philosophical/social influence in the development of the convergence of Western juridical traditions. Those traditions underpin (in a historical, evaluative sense) the American legal system as well.

Having accepted that, one should think that it would be easy to debunk the principle of the sanctity of life… after all who in our days, really believes that suicide is an infringement in God’s will? Not even our legal systems believe it anymore!

As previous posters suggested, the argument of the sanctity of life can’t be seriously reduced to survival and evolutionary considerations; if society abandons these principles, it doesn’t mean that society may not survive. or it does ? Hmmmm....

Another point that we shall all agree though, is that it must be intuitive that life is sacred although this could be a trait of our evolution (along with our dislike of corpses, commonality of phobias etc) but I cannot find a persuasive argument for the sanctity of life.

Of course such an observation-that life is not sacred- could lead someone to question the prevalent morality regarding murder…. but this, is another story.

So. Considering that legislation is the resultant of a bunch of conventions in a society that try to satisfy the average needs and since the existence of a law prohibiting suicide doesn’t satisfy any needs, I think that suicide should not be made illegal.

Tom Sawyer

Alonzo,

You're confusing suicide and euthanasia, which are separate topics. While some suicides are because of terminal illnesses, generally they are caused by depression, etc and not cancer. When I'm talking about the loved ones trying to help the guy live, I'm talking about otherwise healthy people who want to end their life. Euthanasia is a whole other topic and I'm talking about suicide here.

The best for a person is not always what the person wants. Some people just want to sit in their room all day and shoot heroin. Does that mean that if you truly love them, you should buy them heroin so they can just sit around all day getting high? Or should you try and help them and get them off the drugs and into treatment so that they can try and make something of their life? Most addicts would probably resent you if you tried to do that, but if you loved them wouldn't it be worth it to help them even though they don't want to be helped?

It's the same thing with suicide. If a person wants to kill themself solely because they feel depressed, lonely, or whatever then I think that it is the duty of anyone who loves them to try and help them. Even though the person wants to end their life, there is the potential that this is a temporary feeling and they would get over it and later on if you care for this person you should do whatever you can to allow them to get past whatever negative feelings they have and go on to live a productive life. I can't see it from any other point of view, so perhaps I should ask you - in what situations would you consider it appropriate for an otherwise healthy person to kill himself?


Give them the benefit of the doubt? We're talking about someone ending his life here, not trying to figure out if he's lying about taking the last cookie from the cookie jar. If an otherwise healthy person wants to end his life, I think it's safe to assume that he's not thinking clearly about it and is overwhelmed but some event or series of events in his life. While this may not be the case, I think that the benefit of the doubt should go to believing that he can get over whatever problems he's having and helping to give him a chance at a good life rather than just figuring it's his choice and letting him make a decision that ends his life for no good reason.

Pyrrho

It is pure BS to say that it shows "that their love and caring for you was worthless". It shows only that it was not enough to outweigh the disadvantages of life. That is very far from necessarily being "worthless".



You seem to be saying that your life is not your own, but is really owned by your family. I guess you believe that people should always accept the religion of their family no matter what, because otherwise you may cause them great emotional distress?

Your life is your own, and you should be permitted to dispose of it in any manner you see fit, as long as you do not cause physical harm to others in so doing.

Every choice you make in life might upset someone else, so unless you are advocating living your whole life just to please your family, I'll consider you as being inconsistent. Do you choose a spouse to please your family or yourself? Do you select a career to please your family or yourself?

Frankly, when people have children, the children did not ask to be born, and the parents have no right to expect the children, when they become adults, to do whatever pleases the parents.

Furthermore, your claim that a person's death "brings no benefit whatsoever" is completely ridiculous, as anyone who commits suicide obviously regards it as better to die than to live. What is considered to be "of benefit" is entirely dependent upon the person doing the evaluation. I think it would be of benefit for everyone to reject Christianity; some others disagree with this assessment.


Everyone should be allowed to kill themselves at any time for whatever reason.


Suggestions for further reading on this topic:

Seneca, Letters 70 & 77
David Hume, Of Suicide

Mr.Kitchen

I am of the opinion that suicide should be illegal but with no penalty. The reason for this is to give the police the authority to intervene. Many people who are suicidal will not be suicidal in a few months.

However i also support euthunasia and think that the law making suicide illegal should be crafted so that it does not affect the ability of those in tremendous pain and suffering to leave gracefully rather thn lingering and suffering if they so desire.

Pyrrho

People change their minds about all kinds of things, some of which are not easily reversible, yet can be done on a whim. Why should suicide be any different? It is not as if one would live forever if one did not commit suicide. It is only a matter of how and when, not whether one will die.