Mageth

Originally posted by Radorth

Well no. If we were worthless, God would hardly have permitted his son to die for us,

From Romans:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

So, while we may not be "worthless" to God, it seems that we're not worthy of God. A fine distinction, that.

even though, BTW, Jesus willingly decided to do so.

Then why did Jesus say, in the Garden, "Not my will, but thine"?

We need no "original" sin to have need of a savior. We seem able to invent plenty of our own, and in some ways ours are much worse and more plentiful than some of our forefathers.

All the "sins" known to Xianity and subjected on humankind were "invented" or codified by the Bible or by the purveyors of the Bible. How is one sin "worse" than another?

IMO, two or three twentieth century atheists have been the most "worthless sinners" in history, if that were possible. But of course Jesus died for them as well.

Right, so if Hitler made a deathbed confession, he's up there havin' a good 'ole time alongside many of his victims. Pleasant thought, that.

True, although "magically" is the wrong word since there are clear conditions. And guilt is washed away as well, for those who get it.

Sin and guilt imposed from above - two shackles on the ankles of humanity. It's time we shed ourselves of them.

That's what makes Christianity utterly unique.

What - making false claims? Some other religions provide mechanisms to escape sin and assuage guilt as well, and others don't impose them in the first place.

Christianity may be different in its route to "salvation", but it is in no way unique. Most if not all religions offer that.

And not only are they "washed away" but you lose the desire to commit them and thus enjoy a great deal more freedom to make better choices than in the past.

That's a laugh (I've seen Xians in action), and not even Biblical, if you read Paul.

BTW, do you think Christians should feel MORE guilty than they do, or less? I'm get a lot of contradictory messages from skeptics on that subject.

I don't think anyone should be subjected to "guilt from above", as in guilty of not meeting the standards of an externally-imposed religious creed.

Except a billion Catholics who, if you ask them, will tell you "I hope so." It's slightly more complicated than that. We all know Jesus said that some who think they are Christians really aren't.

Think long and hard, Radorth; he was speaking to you, you know.

They have to be wearing a "wedding garment" since they have no righteousness of their own. Fortunately one can admit they need to put on the righteousness of Christ, so dearly earned for us at Calvary, in their dying moment- another unique feature of Christianity which self-righteous people find so repugnant.

Well, it is repugnant to me, and I'm not "self-righteous." That in itself is couched in the terms of your guilt-ridden, salvation-by-magic religion that provides a Stalin with a deathbed "golden parachute." "Righteousness" whether granted by divine grace or self-assumed, is not a quality that I seek or that I find valuable in others, and it's another thing, along with sin/guilt, that the world would be better shut of.

Well no, that isn't true either. I find no pleasure at all in the thought, nor do I think anyone here really does. And of course I have never said all unbelievers will roast in hell, nor do I believe it. It's not in the Bible with the possible exception of one single scripture, an obvious interpolation added to Mark. There's hope for everyone, even the lowly Rad, who has been here judged a "worse witness than Hitler."

It's gracious of you to not condemn us to hell. However, your religion has a hold on you that, like Magus, you'd be much better off if you'd break. You look down on others for assuming "self-righteousness", while at the same time practicing mental (and in this case, public) self-immolation in attempt to make yourself feel more righteous.

Nice try though, er... well maybe not.

Funny, that's what I say about Xianity.

Cojana

I don't understand how sheeple can candanm Idi Amin for acting like God, hate even, but won't express the same sentiment for God, for being itself,, you've seen it, people in disgust because someone are acting like God, arrogant,Vain,selfish,and demanding, thats God character,its ugly,. sheeple can see ugly character in others but can't see it in God,rather won't,..think on Gods character, Arrogant,Vain,Selfish, and Demanding, ugly character on anyone of us, I say uglier on God, tenfold,...