Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Marduk · 05-29-2002, 03:37 PM

The best expanation I have seen so far is that ghosts and such literally are 'in your head' meaning some people are much more sensitive to electromagnet fields than others, and it affects parts of their brain.
I saw a show on Discover where a Doctor took EM readings and some kind of gravometric readings of this womans house, she claimed it was haunted, it was also located at a spot where high power lnes diverge. He found not only was her house way off the scale but she had a very low skin reistance as well.
Then there is this guy with his various EMF generators.
<a href="http://www.nexusmagazine.com/Polter.html" target="_blank">http://www.nexusmagazine.com/Polter.html</a>

dennis/innomen · 05-29-2002, 03:59 PM

I absolutely lend no credibility to this site nor do i endorse it in any possible way. I just thought that it might stir up the discussion a bit. Check out the ghost photo gallery, its a bit ridiculous.

<a href="http://www.artbell.com/cgi-bin/ksearch.cgi?terms=ghost+documentation&sort=Matches &display=10&b=1&t=1&d=1" target="_blank">http://www.artbell.com/cgi-bin/ksearch.cgi?terms=ghost+documentation&sort=Matches &display=10&b=1&t=1&d=1</a>

On a related note, i used to live in an apartment that was a top floor of a very old house here in new enlgand. Some unexplainable things happened to me while i was there. For example, once when i got home from work, in the middle of my kitchen floor stood one of my very fragile crystal candle stick holders. It was moved from the kitchen table and managed to get to the middle of the floor undamaged and upright. About 15 such incidents happened in the three years i lived there. I try to keep an open mind.

Viti · 05-29-2002, 04:34 PM

I enjoy looking into unexplained events (I refrain from the term supernatural...if it happens, it is part of this universe and so is natural).

I have experienced things I have been unable to explain and look at them as interesting anomolies. I would hate for the universe to hold no mystery

Starspun · 05-29-2002, 04:54 PM

I started this discussion because my friend and I were discussing the assertions he made after watching this documentary.
So, if there are unexplainable, supernatural things happening, how can we say that there is no god? I mean, if a ghost is possible, or, material items move themselves, why couldnt geezus turn water to wine. Do I need to rethink my atheistic views of the world?

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Starspun ]</p>

Mageth · 05-29-2002, 05:00 PM

So, if there are unexplainable, supernatural things happening, how can we say that there is no god? I mean, if a ghost is possible, or, material items move themselves, why couldnt geezus turn water to wine. Do I need to rethink my atheistic views of the world?

"Unexplainable" is not synonymous with "supernatural." As LadyShea said, if something happens, it is part of this universe and so is natural.

Even if ghosts are possible and material items "move" themselves (neither of which I've seen solid evidence to support), I would place these phenomenon in the category of unexplained but natural occurrences.

Thor Q. Mada · 05-29-2002, 05:06 PM

Unexplainable always implies the use of the present state of the art science and technology. Unexplainable events if any are time related.
My grandfather would not be able to understand present day science and technology. For him most of the daily stuff we use is unexplainable.
For what concerns the documentaries on television, I suggest you buy Randi's books.
None of these extraordinary events have ever been performed under controlled conditions.

Starspun · 05-29-2002, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Even if ghosts are possible and material items "move" themselves (neither of which I've seen solid evidence to support), I would place these phenomenon in the category of unexplained but natural occurrences.

How is a dead person hanging out with us a natural occurrence? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

Viti · 05-29-2002, 05:18 PM

Starspun...I don't think there is a need to jump from "I can't explain X" to "Therefore there is a God". I think 99% of supposed "supernatural" occurances are explainable if we can recreate the conditions etc...the 1% is simply beyond our current knowledge.

<a href="http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html" target="_blank">Sleep Paralysis and Associated Hypnagogic and Hypnopompic Experiences </a> can readily explain numerous supernatural phenomena including OBE's, Shadow People, Alien Abductions, Ghosts, Demons, Angels and other things.

The things I still feel are unexplained seem to be related to the human mind which we still know so little about like seemingly precognitive experiences (which I have witnessed with my Mom and Grandma). Eventually these too will be considered normal IMO.

Starspun · 05-29-2002, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Starspun...I don't think there is a need to jump from "I can't explain X" to "Therefore there is a God". I think 99% of supposed "supernatural" occurances are explainable if we can recreate the conditions etc...the 1% is simply beyond our current knowledge.

I was specifically referring to ghosts and hauntings. I would not say that unexplainable=god. I would say that if ghosts exist (which I do not believe), then perhaps the natural world isn't as natural as we may think. After all, if a dead person can float around in this universe (wouldn't that break a law of physics?), then another super-natural almighty being isn't as far fetched as I think.
I will say that I haven't ever witnessed anything out-of-the-ordinary, so when my friend started to debate the issue with me, I came here seeking an answer to something I havent reaally payed much attention to.

[ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Starspun ]</p>

Starspun · 05-29-2002, 05:37 PM

BTW Ladyshea, I am curious to learn of your precognative experience. Care to share?

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05-29-2002, 03:37 PM	#11
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	The best expanation I have seen so far is that ghosts and such literally are 'in your head' meaning some people are much more sensitive to electromagnet fields than others, and it affects parts of their brain. I saw a show on Discover where a Doctor took EM readings and some kind of gravometric readings of this womans house, she claimed it was haunted, it was also located at a spot where high power lnes diverge. He found not only was her house way off the scale but she had a very low skin reistance as well. Then there is this guy with his various EMF generators. <a href="http://www.nexusmagazine.com/Polter.html" target="_blank">http://www.nexusmagazine.com/Polter.html</a>

05-29-2002, 03:59 PM	#12
dennis/innomen Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Boston area Posts: 138	I absolutely lend no credibility to this site nor do i endorse it in any possible way. I just thought that it might stir up the discussion a bit. Check out the ghost photo gallery, its a bit ridiculous. <a href="http://www.artbell.com/cgi-bin/ksearch.cgi?terms=ghost+documentation&sort=Matches &display=10&b=1&t=1&d=1" target="_blank">http://www.artbell.com/cgi-bin/ksearch.cgi?terms=ghost+documentation&sort=Matches &display=10&b=1&t=1&d=1</a> On a related note, i used to live in an apartment that was a top floor of a very old house here in new enlgand. Some unexplainable things happened to me while i was there. For example, once when i got home from work, in the middle of my kitchen floor stood one of my very fragile crystal candle stick holders. It was moved from the kitchen table and managed to get to the middle of the floor undamaged and upright. About 15 such incidents happened in the three years i lived there. I try to keep an open mind.

05-29-2002, 04:34 PM	#13
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	I enjoy looking into unexplained events (I refrain from the term supernatural...if it happens, it is part of this universe and so is natural). I have experienced things I have been unable to explain and look at them as interesting anomolies. I would hate for the universe to hold no mystery

05-29-2002, 04:54 PM	#14
Starspun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 334	I started this discussion because my friend and I were discussing the assertions he made after watching this documentary. So, if there are unexplainable, supernatural things happening, how can we say that there is no god? I mean, if a ghost is possible, or, material items move themselves, why couldnt geezus turn water to wine. Do I need to rethink my atheistic views of the world? <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> [ May 29, 2002: Message edited by: Starspun ]</p>

05-29-2002, 05:00 PM	#15
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	So, if there are unexplainable, supernatural things happening, how can we say that there is no god? I mean, if a ghost is possible, or, material items move themselves, why couldnt geezus turn water to wine. Do I need to rethink my atheistic views of the world? "Unexplainable" is not synonymous with "supernatural." As LadyShea said, if something happens, it is part of this universe and so is natural. Even if ghosts are possible and material items "move" themselves (neither of which I've seen solid evidence to support), I would place these phenomenon in the category of unexplained but natural occurrences.

05-29-2002, 05:06 PM	#16
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	Unexplainable always implies the use of the present state of the art science and technology. Unexplainable events if any are time related. My grandfather would not be able to understand present day science and technology. For him most of the daily stuff we use is unexplainable. For what concerns the documentaries on television, I suggest you buy Randi's books. None of these extraordinary events have ever been performed under controlled conditions.

05-29-2002, 05:18 PM	#18
Viti Contributor Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Down South Posts: 12,879	Starspun...I don't think there is a need to jump from "I can't explain X" to "Therefore there is a God". I think 99% of supposed "supernatural" occurances are explainable if we can recreate the conditions etc...the 1% is simply beyond our current knowledge. <a href="http://www.arts.uwaterloo.ca/~acheyne/S_P.html" target="_blank">Sleep Paralysis and Associated Hypnagogic and Hypnopompic Experiences </a> can readily explain numerous supernatural phenomena including OBE's, Shadow People, Alien Abductions, Ghosts, Demons, Angels and other things. The things I still feel are unexplained seem to be related to the human mind which we still know so little about like seemingly precognitive experiences (which I have witnessed with my Mom and Grandma). Eventually these too will be considered normal IMO.

05-29-2002, 05:37 PM	#20
Starspun Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 334	BTW Ladyshea, I am curious to learn of your precognative experience. Care to share?

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