Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Anson · 06-09-2003, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lamma

The worst thing a woman can say is "no". It's one word and it doesn't devalue you one little bit.

That's right. My problem was that in the times I've tried asking women out in the past (a measly twice) they rejected me and I did this: :banghead: for months afterwards until my self esteem hit rock bottom. I now realise that, although I may have been a bit inept, there was no reason to beat myself up over it. I wasn't doing anyone any favours.

Anson · 06-09-2003, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cutter
How do you manage? Do you feel lonely?

See the thing is, I'm not a very social animal. People make me uncomfortable. Thanks to a verbally, emotionally and mentally abusive stepfather, plus a procession of assholes in high school, I find it very hard to deal with, and especially trust, people.

The number of friends, close friends that I trust, that I've had at any one point in my life (and indeed probably my whole life) can literally be counted on one hand. Do I feel lonely? The question to me is meaningless. I've been alone all my life, I can't imagine life any other way.

Why do you refuse to ask out women? Were you hurt the first time you did?

Oh boy. This lead to the lowest, most shameful part of my life. You see, at that point in time (I eventually found out) I was suffering from depression (hardly surprising considering, see above). When I asked her out - well she didn't say yes, and she didn't say no. What she did do was play head games with me for about two weeks. Not a wise thing to do to someone suffering from depression and with my background in emotional, etc. abuse. Put simply, I snapped and ended up threatening her with a knife. I was arrested, asked to leave school or be expelled, and spent some weeks in a psych hospital as part of my bail conditions.

I can't even begin to put into words how ashamed I am of what I did that day.

I'm not saying that it would happen again, but frankly I've had enough of people fucking with my head. So I'm not prepared to take the risk of asking out someone who's not interested but doesn't mind having a new plaything.

Don't you feel the need to be loved?

I'm not convinced that such a thing (love) exists.

Geez, you give off the impression that you don't need anyone, but I can't help wondering that maybe you still do. I'm not the wisest person, and I'm not a psychologist, so I don't know how to help. I just hope you can find happiness. I don't know if you're seeing a psychiatrist at the moment, but I think you should consider it. I've been to one, and it helped a lot. And forget the stigma associated with it. People go to see psychiatrists for all kinds of reasons.

Loren Pechtel · 06-09-2003, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Cutter
I'm not convinced that such a thing (love) exists.

It certainly exists. It's why my wife and I normally walk either hand in hand or with my hand on her shoulder, or sometimes both (holding hands while my hand is on her shoulder.)

j-ogenes · 06-09-2003, 06:04 PM

My pickup line is, "Hi, I'd just like to tell you how attractive
I think I am." So, yeah, I'm bad at "chatting up."

But I do believe it's not really what you say. And I don't think
it's particularly what you look like or what you drive or how
compatible your interests are with a girl.

I think the biggest thing that brings a man and a woman
together is this strange energy that no one can really define.
Yes, it's amazing how that strange energy can suddenly appear
when the guy looks like Brad Pitt--in that case it isn't necessary. But I think that inarticulate clods do quite well a lot of the
time because there's just an attraction there, and that
attraction doesn't *have* to be caused by the guy's great looks. It's a matter, I guess, of being in the right place at the right time. If it ever happens to me, I'll report back.

Cutter · 06-09-2003, 06:59 PM

join an online dating service

Been there, done that - sod that for a game of soldiers. In the past I've joined up with maybe half a dozen or more. In that time only one woman contacted me (and she lived in flippin' Adelaide! We actually talked a lot via e-mail and ICQ for some time, but eventually it petered out).

Of course I messaged quite a few myself. Only a handful ever replied and they all ended the same way. After around the second or third e-mail they asked for a recent pic of myself, which I sent them.

And they never replied to me again. (Hey, I'm no Brad Pitt, but I don't think I'm that bad!

).

Frankly, I don't mind if people think I'm the ugliest thing since roadkill but could you at least have the fucking guts to tell me? Sheesh!

Anson - Even if I wanted to see a psych, I couldn't afford it. Hell, I can barely pay the bills and buy food each week.

FoE · 06-09-2003, 07:04 PM

Perhaps peoples problems with chatting up females is that they're trying to chat up females. Women are the same species you know. Do you meet male friends with the intention of trying to chat them up for whatever reason? I don' think i've ever walked in a room and said "Hmm, i'd like that guy to be my best friend. How do i chat him up"? You meet the girlfriends by treating them the same way you would your best (male) friend.

Cutter · 06-09-2003, 07:07 PM

But my best friend and I have this warped system where we try to outdo each other with insults - the more disgusting the better.

I don't think I'd impress any women by saying "Hi there you lipstick wearing felch monkey!"

Suaup · 06-09-2003, 08:25 PM

It's like learning to ride a bike, after you finally stay stable and coast for a few seconds, you'll be on your way to getting comfortable around women. Just like learning to ride that bike, you will coast smoothly and many times it'll come to an end. Sometimes you'll crash and it'll hurt, sometimes you'll stop the bike and hop off when you get to where you want to go, and sometimes you'll ride around all day playing with your friends and having the most innocent, charming, and enjoyable time of your life. As a 21 year old, relationships are the only thing for me that really re-captures that innocent, fun experience of being a kid and just having fun playing. Trust me, it's worth it in the long run to take a few crashes to understand how to keep the bike going. But no matter what happens, you get back on the bike and keep going.

I firmly believe you have to have experience to be an interesting person. Experience defines who you are, and experience in relationships is what's going to make you connect to others with experience. Let me tell you about the time I nearly had sex several years ago. I was a virgin still at that time and she was much more experienced than me, way out of my league but I managed to play it cool. Even though I had no clue what I was doing, I pretended I did. I made my fatal mistake in bed and admitted I had never done this before when she wanted to go beyond foreplay. Once I showed my inexperience, she told me "I don't have time to teach some virgin how to fuck" She got up, put her clothes on and walked out of my place. It left me somewhat upset for a week but I realized by showing inexperience I lost my connection with her, and it allowed her to take control of the situation and play a mind game just to hurt me. You're going to run into a lot of girls and women like this, but you'll also run into lots not like that. I got over it by going out with my friends and getting back on that bike. The point is, even if you have no clue what you're doing, always play it cool and pretend you know exactly what's going on. You're confident enough to let nothing phase you.

Just talk to everyone, ask how they're doing, ask what's going so well to make them have a good day, talk about their response. The best advice I can give you is to talk off their responses. If they say it's been a busy day, ask them how they feel about working when busy? Do they have what it takes to get the job done, or prefer when it's nice and relaxed? Don't change to a tangent or stop the conservation. Be sincere and talk to them as if they were already your girlfriend.

I'm a pretty unattractive person according to hotornot.com and several women friends (can see my pic on the like page 42 of the picture thread on the sec. lounge, let's put it this way I get a 4 on hotornot.com) - and many times I've been blocked from even talking to girls because of how I look. You'll always run into that type of block. Just play it cool, and move on. Confidence is important, and so is playing the numbers. If you want to find the girl of your dreams, you have to go through as many as you can. But for the most part, despite how I look, I'm almost always warmly received for conversation. Once they get to know my personality a bit better, it helps them see past the looks. I have a friend who is out of shape, face filled with acne, a beer gut, and generally very, very unattractive, but he gets more dates than I do. Why? He talks to every girl he sees, he talks about something he sees on them, and he simply doesn't care if he fails. It's their loss, not his, if they're not interested. They reject him, he moves on.

So, just like learning to ride a bike, you have to get out there and do it. I can't really agree with reading books and movies, the best way to do it is to go out and do it. If you're afraid of rejection, make it your plan to be rejected. I've gone with friends to some of the best clubs around town with the most beautiful women you'll ever imagine (the ones who spend their lives dedicated to their looks) and we went out with the goal to get rejected more so than the other. To do this, we talked to every girl we could, with some of the most absurd conservations, but also some normal ones. And you know what, I left with three phone numbers that night, of girls I'd consider way out of my league. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Remember, it's worse to not give them a chance to accept or reject you, than to actually learn by being accepted or rejected.

Good luck

Goliath · 06-09-2003, 09:58 PM

Count me in amongst those who are clueless as to how to chat it up with the ladies. Whenever I'm in a social situation with an attractive woman, something happens along the following lines (assuming that I start the conversation...I'll leave to the reader the modifications for the situation in which the woman starts the conversation):

I try to think of as many ways to start the conversation as possible.

For each of the openers that I've considered, I try to predict as many of her reactions to said openers as possible.

I then try to formulate replies to as many of her reactions from the previous step as possible.

Then, for as many of my replies as possible, I try to predict as many of her responses as I possibly can...

etc, etc, etc. Of course, since I am a human and not a computer, it doesn't take long for my brain to be overloaded with the calculations. This leaves so little of my brain to concentrate on the actual conversation, that I end up looking like an idiot.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Buddrow_Wilson · 06-09-2003, 10:23 PM

It doesn't have to be a game or scheme or even have a strategy. Just go about your life, be friendly to people, and sometime when you least suspect it, you'll meet someone. You don't have to be in a hurry, but you do have to be a social being if you ever expect it to happen. Its really that simple. Of course, if you just want to have sex with people, then be a "playa" or whatever. I don't go that route.

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06-09-2003, 06:04 PM	#44
j-ogenes Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 551	My pickup line is, "Hi, I'd just like to tell you how attractive I think I am." So, yeah, I'm bad at "chatting up." But I do believe it's not really what you say. And I don't think it's particularly what you look like or what you drive or how compatible your interests are with a girl. I think the biggest thing that brings a man and a woman together is this strange energy that no one can really define. Yes, it's amazing how that strange energy can suddenly appear when the guy looks like Brad Pitt--in that case it isn't necessary. But I think that inarticulate clods do quite well a lot of the time because there's just an attraction there, and that attraction doesn't have to be caused by the guy's great looks. It's a matter, I guess, of being in the right place at the right time. If it ever happens to me, I'll report back.

06-09-2003, 06:59 PM	#45
Cutter Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,805	join an online dating service Been there, done that - sod that for a game of soldiers. In the past I've joined up with maybe half a dozen or more. In that time only one woman contacted me (and she lived in flippin' Adelaide! We actually talked a lot via e-mail and ICQ for some time, but eventually it petered out). Of course I messaged quite a few myself. Only a handful ever replied and they all ended the same way. After around the second or third e-mail they asked for a recent pic of myself, which I sent them. And they never replied to me again. (Hey, I'm no Brad Pitt, but I don't think I'm that bad! ). Frankly, I don't mind if people think I'm the ugliest thing since roadkill but could you at least have the fucking guts to tell me? Sheesh! Anson - Even if I wanted to see a psych, I couldn't afford it. Hell, I can barely pay the bills and buy food each week.

06-09-2003, 07:04 PM	#46
FoE Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,168	Perhaps peoples problems with chatting up females is that they're trying to chat up females. Women are the same species you know. Do you meet male friends with the intention of trying to chat them up for whatever reason? I don' think i've ever walked in a room and said "Hmm, i'd like that guy to be my best friend. How do i chat him up"? You meet the girlfriends by treating them the same way you would your best (male) friend.

06-09-2003, 07:07 PM	#47
Cutter Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 1,805	But my best friend and I have this warped system where we try to outdo each other with insults - the more disgusting the better. I don't think I'd impress any women by saying "Hi there you lipstick wearing felch monkey!"

06-09-2003, 08:25 PM	#48
Suaup Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Phoenix Posts: 90	It's like learning to ride a bike, after you finally stay stable and coast for a few seconds, you'll be on your way to getting comfortable around women. Just like learning to ride that bike, you will coast smoothly and many times it'll come to an end. Sometimes you'll crash and it'll hurt, sometimes you'll stop the bike and hop off when you get to where you want to go, and sometimes you'll ride around all day playing with your friends and having the most innocent, charming, and enjoyable time of your life. As a 21 year old, relationships are the only thing for me that really re-captures that innocent, fun experience of being a kid and just having fun playing. Trust me, it's worth it in the long run to take a few crashes to understand how to keep the bike going. But no matter what happens, you get back on the bike and keep going. I firmly believe you have to have experience to be an interesting person. Experience defines who you are, and experience in relationships is what's going to make you connect to others with experience. Let me tell you about the time I nearly had sex several years ago. I was a virgin still at that time and she was much more experienced than me, way out of my league but I managed to play it cool. Even though I had no clue what I was doing, I pretended I did. I made my fatal mistake in bed and admitted I had never done this before when she wanted to go beyond foreplay. Once I showed my inexperience, she told me "I don't have time to teach some virgin how to fuck" She got up, put her clothes on and walked out of my place. It left me somewhat upset for a week but I realized by showing inexperience I lost my connection with her, and it allowed her to take control of the situation and play a mind game just to hurt me. You're going to run into a lot of girls and women like this, but you'll also run into lots not like that. I got over it by going out with my friends and getting back on that bike. The point is, even if you have no clue what you're doing, always play it cool and pretend you know exactly what's going on. You're confident enough to let nothing phase you. Just talk to everyone, ask how they're doing, ask what's going so well to make them have a good day, talk about their response. The best advice I can give you is to talk off their responses. If they say it's been a busy day, ask them how they feel about working when busy? Do they have what it takes to get the job done, or prefer when it's nice and relaxed? Don't change to a tangent or stop the conservation. Be sincere and talk to them as if they were already your girlfriend. I'm a pretty unattractive person according to hotornot.com and several women friends (can see my pic on the like page 42 of the picture thread on the sec. lounge, let's put it this way I get a 4 on hotornot.com) - and many times I've been blocked from even talking to girls because of how I look. You'll always run into that type of block. Just play it cool, and move on. Confidence is important, and so is playing the numbers. If you want to find the girl of your dreams, you have to go through as many as you can. But for the most part, despite how I look, I'm almost always warmly received for conversation. Once they get to know my personality a bit better, it helps them see past the looks. I have a friend who is out of shape, face filled with acne, a beer gut, and generally very, very unattractive, but he gets more dates than I do. Why? He talks to every girl he sees, he talks about something he sees on them, and he simply doesn't care if he fails. It's their loss, not his, if they're not interested. They reject him, he moves on. So, just like learning to ride a bike, you have to get out there and do it. I can't really agree with reading books and movies, the best way to do it is to go out and do it. If you're afraid of rejection, make it your plan to be rejected. I've gone with friends to some of the best clubs around town with the most beautiful women you'll ever imagine (the ones who spend their lives dedicated to their looks) and we went out with the goal to get rejected more so than the other. To do this, we talked to every girl we could, with some of the most absurd conservations, but also some normal ones. And you know what, I left with three phone numbers that night, of girls I'd consider way out of my league. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. Remember, it's worse to not give them a chance to accept or reject you, than to actually learn by being accepted or rejected. Good luck

06-09-2003, 09:58 PM	#49
Goliath Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Fargo, ND, USA Posts: 1,849	Count me in amongst those who are clueless as to how to chat it up with the ladies. Whenever I'm in a social situation with an attractive woman, something happens along the following lines (assuming that I start the conversation...I'll leave to the reader the modifications for the situation in which the woman starts the conversation): I try to think of as many ways to start the conversation as possible. For each of the openers that I've considered, I try to predict as many of her reactions to said openers as possible. I then try to formulate replies to as many of her reactions from the previous step as possible. Then, for as many of my replies as possible, I try to predict as many of her responses as I possibly can... etc, etc, etc. Of course, since I am a human and not a computer, it doesn't take long for my brain to be overloaded with the calculations. This leaves so little of my brain to concentrate on the actual conversation, that I end up looking like an idiot. Sincerely, Goliath

06-09-2003, 10:23 PM	#50
Buddrow_Wilson Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Arkansas Posts: 1,589	It doesn't have to be a game or scheme or even have a strategy. Just go about your life, be friendly to people, and sometime when you least suspect it, you'll meet someone. You don't have to be in a hurry, but you do have to be a social being if you ever expect it to happen. Its really that simple. Of course, if you just want to have sex with people, then be a "playa" or whatever. I don't go that route.

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