Feather

So because a woman may consider abortion to be murder when the father doesn't, we should respect the moral value of the mother and force the father to go against his own? How is that fair? Why not value that of the father over the woman's and force an abortion instead?

And don't play the "gestation, invasive surgery, etc" type cards. The woman is definitely affected by the biological process whether it comes from gestation to term or abortion; there can be no doubt of that. But the man's life is changed, too, if he is forced to care for someone he doesn't want to care for.

Both parties are affected in this kind of scenario. It just seems ludicrous to give more weight to the female's desires simply because she has to carry the child for 9 months (or choose to abort, etc.). That's simply not a good enough reason to give her desires, opinions, and values any more weight than the man's, in my opinion.

Loren Pechtel

Originally posted by melinie007
I assume we are talking about mistaken pregnancies.

Obviously, if an element of fraud is involved (the woman deliberately missed a pill, deliberately wanted a child and was not honest about her contraception etc.) it seems wrong to hold the man responsible.

Agreed. There should be no liability whatsoever in such a case.

In mistaken pregnancies two have tangoed, as it were, and both are equally responsible for the resulting situation.

However:-

Abortion is NOT (always) a choice....

However, the law of the land is that abortion is legal. If she doesn't accept it then I think the burden is on her to communicate that beforehand.

Soyin Milka

Are you suggesting the responsibility of prevention is currently equally shared between men and women?

Soyin

Pyrrho

I think any man who is too stupid to ask about such things before hand gets what he deserves. Yes, I agree that a woman should communicate with a man about these things before they have sex. But communication involves two (or more) people, and, unless one refused to talk about it, the fault lies with both of them. (And, if one refused to talk about it, the other one must be a moron to proceed to have sex.)

Have you ever heard the expression, "look before you leap"? Everyone involved should do this, and if they don't, they only have themselves to blame for whatever happens as a result of their own stupidity.

The only one I feel sorry for in such cases is the child of such imbeciles.

Buddrow_Wilson

I'm sorry but the mother's views on abortion must be irrelevant in these cases. Only the law should matter. What is there to stop a woman from claiming moral/religious anti-abortion beliefs simply in order to force the man to pay child support? Its a rediculous notion.

Feather

No; I'm merely suggesting that it should be. And I hold that opinion from both a legal and moral perspective. Whether or not it actually is the case in practice is another matter, I think. Or perhaps not. I can't imagine it would change my opinion, regardless.

Two consenting adults supposedly have the ability to abstain from or engage in sexual activity, and to take the necessary medical actions to prevent pregnancy in the event they choose to engage in sexual activity.

Why should the law indicate otherwise?

Loren Pechtel

Under the current law it doesn't even matter if they did talk about it and she said she would abort.

The law is far more interested in getting the women off welfare than it is in being fair.

Derec

Yes but men and women should have the same rights and responsibilities concerning raising of a child.
Today men have cloise to 0 chance of getting custody of their child for example.
On the other note a woman can decide to give a child up for adoption or to abort thus absolving herself from any responsibility for the child. A man has no such recourse.

If (as I understoof him) Budrow only wants to give both and women same rights and duties regarding child rearing then I wholeheartedly agree.

UMoC

Derec

I don't see that as contradictory. Women now have both more reporductive and parental rights then men.

Men should not be forced to pay child support in every case and they should have the same parental rights as mothers do.

UMoC

Derec

Definitely. Especially for more casual relationships because condoms double as STD protection.

UMoC