lcb

My Christian theology says that it was never morally "fine" for older men to seduce young boys in any culture and that ALL child erotica is immoral and that all child pornography is immoral.The American Atheists say that child erotica should be judged on a "case by case" basis and the North American Man Boy Love Association actively promotes adult/child sexuality and erotica related thereto.

Veil of Fire

You could take out the word 'child' and that sentance would be just as accurate.

Ergo, I don't think consulting your morality about any sort of SPECIFIC type of erotica would have any different answer than consulting it about erotica in general.

Daggah

AND AGAIN, how is NAMBLA a secular humanist organization?

lcb

The north American Man Boy LOve Association refers to themselves as a "secular humanist organization" (1), Their "relativistic moral analysis " comports with the secular humanist relativistic philosophy (2),nambla will be marching in the Godless March on Washington as a "secular humanist organization".(3),The leading sociologist, Amitai Etzioni classifies NAMBLA as one of the myriad of "secular humanist" groups which "question traditional societal mores concerning sexuality taboos",(4)Camille Paglia ( a leading secular humanist author and academic) refers to NAMBLA as a "secular humanist" organization,(5), to be cont.

Daggah

Where?

Prove it.

Prove it.

Where?

Where?

All I see are assertions.

[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Daggah ]</p>

Daggah

Doing a Google search for:

"Camille Paglia" NAMBLA "secular humanism" - 0 results
"Camille Paglia" NAMBLA "secular humanist" - 0 results
"Amitai Etzioni" NAMBLA "secular humanism" - 0 results
"Amitai Etzioni" NAMBLA "secular humanist" - 0 results

Google-searching for NAMBLA "secular humanism" does not produce a SINGLE quote supporting the assertion. Every single webpage brought up were either conservative sites demonizing secular humanism and claiming NAMBLA was such an organization, or a rebuttal to that.

Do you have something you want to say, lcb? Does "lcb" stand for "lying Christian bastard?"

bonduca

Produce this quote and tell us how this 1)proves that we support such claim and 2)proves that we at II endorse child porn and 3)proves that atheists in general endorse child porn.

see above

So will satanists. It is a public event. Please explain how this relates to the thread topic

Please see point #2

Please 1)produce quote from Paglia and also explain how this 2)implies endorsement of child pornography by all atheists.

Toto

lcb seems unnaturally obsessed with NAMBLA.

I put NAMBLA and "secular humanism" into Google, and came up with 29 sites, none of which indicated that NAMBLA was a secular humanist organization, except for a parody site, bushoncrack.com, which referred to the secular humanist wing of NAMBLA forming an alliance with the Pagan Pedophiles and a Catholic group PANDER. There is no reference for NAMBLA referring to itself as a secular humanist group, and we do know that a Catholic priest was involved with the group.

As for Camille Pagia, you have to go to NAMBLA's web page to find this quote (and I guess we know where you've been surfing) - but notice that it doesn't refer to NAMBLA as secular or humanist:

(And please note: Paglia is not exactly a secular humanist herself. She calls herself an atheist, but is very pro-religion and in particular pro-Catholic, and tries to be outrageous.)

Amitai Etzioni in one essay uses NAMBLA as a counter example to a claim that voluntary associations are all good. He did not claim that it was a secular humanist organization, and some of the other negative examples he used were religious groups. His essay is <a href="http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/etzioni/A264.html" target="_blank">here</a>. You have to read it carefully, because Etzioni is using sarcasm in claiming that NAMBLA has the same status as a bowling league, and you seem to be unable to detect sarcasm.

(I seem to have cross posted with other brilliant minds with the same idea.)

Toto

Here's another Paglia quote, from a <a href="http://www.salon.com/april97/columnists/paglia970415.html" target="_blank">Salon column</a> on Alan Ginsberg's support for NAMBLA:

Not "secular humanist" - pagan. And I believe she is speaking of the pagans of ancient Greece, not the modern pagans, who would probably recoil from any connection to NAMBLA.

[ August 31, 2002: Message edited by: Toto ]</p>

Pomp

Damned good point.