xian

huh? no one made a holistic case for Allah being the GPB.

Hawkingfan

You just got through telling us the IPU and the J/C GPB are the same thing?????????????

xian

huh?

IPU is just 3 ASCII characters. It means nothing without a definition. What is your definition of the IPU?

Mageth

huh? no one made a holistic case for Allah being the GPB.

Oookay...if you insist:

Let us meditate on God, His glorious attributes, who is the basis of everything in this universe as its Creator, who is fit to be worshiped as Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Omniscient and self existent conscious being, who removes all ignorance and impurities from the mind and purifies and sharpens the intellect. [Gayatri Mantra, Yajur Veda]

From the Quran:

"God bears witness that there is no god except He, and so do the angels and THOSE WHO POSSESS KNOWLEDGE. Truthfully and equitably, He is the absolute god; there is no god but He, the Almighty, Most wise." 3:18

"Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book FULLY DETAILED? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
The word of your Lord is COMPLETE, in truth and justice. Nothing shall abrogate His words. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient." [6:114-115]

"Say, 'Whose testimony is the greatest?' Say, 'God's. He is the witness between me and you that THIS Quran has been inspired to me, to preach to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside God.' Say, 'I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry.'"6:19

[2:30] Recall that your Lord said to the angels, "I am placing a representative (a temporary god) on Earth." They said, "Will You place therein one who will spread evil therein and shed blood, while we sing Your praises, glorify You, and uphold Your absolute authority?" He said, "I know what you do not know."

[2:32] They said, "Be You glorified, we have no knowledge, except that which You have taught us. You are the Omniscient, Most Wise."
...

Add to that the OT of the bible, which Muslims accept as scripture and descriptive of Allah, though the Quran is the pentultimate holy book.

Sounds like Allah is a candidate GPB just as "holistically" qualified as the J/C god.

Hawkingfan

These are qualities that Islam gives Allah:

infinite
unlimited
independent
sovereign
moral
omnipotent (properly defined)
omniscient

You said that this means he is the J/C GPB. But then he cannot be the J/C GPB and send believers of the J/C GPB to hell. This shreds your whole argument.

Hawkingfan

It stands for Invisible Pink Unicorn and you know it.
You know what the definition is. See your first post.

xian

lol, that first quote isn't even about Allah...that is a Hindu Veda. not sure why that was in there, but lets proceed:

Allah has many references to attributes of the GPB in the Qu'ran. This is not significant in any religion. They simply leave out some of those attributes, which end up in the result of non-GPB.
Secondly, it is one thing to define God as the GPB, it is another thing to worship God as such. Islamic theology is fundamentally flawed in that it espouses that a finite human can earn infinite favor with God by finite actions. This is a fundamental logical flaw in the Islamic concept of God, and is philosophically impossible, not to mention.

Furthermore, Allah commands believers to regularly spite their enemies, going fully against the logical attribute of a forgiving and merciful GPB. Muhammad was a man of the sword. A raging, violent man that converted people by force. This goes strictly against the GPB as a being that acknowledges the free-will of man.

As Muhammad himself said,
"I have been ordered to fight against the people untilthey testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle,and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity..." (Hadiths Vol. 1, 2:24).

"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:29)

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
(Surah 8:12)

"make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)

these are not one time commands to take out an evil city, or dethrone a villanous king or ruler, but these are continuous commands for daily life, and not reflecting well upon the Muslim claim of GPB.


In addition Surah 4:34-35 authorizes any muslim man to physcially beat his wives (or wife) if they are not submitting to him.


SO, while Islam has some claims of God as having Attributes of the GPB, in practice this is not the case....and other necessary attributes of the GPB are either missing, or altogether contradictory.

xian

i am more concerned about your definition, since you are invoking it.

Hawkingfan

Basic definition of IPU:
infinite
unlimited
independent
sovereign
moral
omnipotent (properly defined)
omniscient

Gary Welsh

The problem with the "Greatest Possible Being" argument is that just because we can conceive of something, it doesn't mean it has to exist. That is always the fundamental divide between people who find these sorts of arguments persuasive, and those who do not. Don't forget to place on your list of attributes:

Existence

If you compare two rival deities, you want to make sure you have that on the list of qualities your own deity has. If your list just says:

Omnipotence
Omniscience
Omnibenevolence
Eternality

And another guy has a list that says:

Omniscience
Omnibenevolence
Eternality
Existence

You might point out to the other guy, "Hey, my deity is superior, since mine has omnipotence and yours doesn't." But you'll have egg on your face if he points out the embarrassing fact that his deity list has the trait of "existence" and yours doesn't. Because anyone can come up with a really swell GPB, but if it only lives in your head, it's all kind of a moot point.