Freethought & Rationalism Archive

dk · 03-16-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion
On the contrary:

whatever existed must not be taken on any faith, but must be investigated with better coherence than what the the Bible shows;
in the vein of the coherent reasoning first advocated many centuries ago by Rene Descartes in 'Le Discours de la Methode'.

Thus, the pompous contradictory claims and 'laws' from the Bible won't happen anymore in humanity.

The truth about whatever existed, can be found in this scientific manner, little by little.

Absent evidence, whatever we, me or you believe reduces to a tension between faith and reason. Faith without reason becomes futility, and reason without faith becomes cynacism.

Ion · 03-16-2003, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dk
...
...Faith without reason becomes futility, ...

Then why do you preach laws and claims from the unfounded Bible?

dk · 03-16-2003, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion
Then why do you preach laws and claims from the unfounded Bible?

Jews wrote the Bible, and have lived under the OT Law for 3,000 years. We've been through this.

Ion · 03-16-2003, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dk
...
...We've been through this.

And I told you about falsehoods in the Bible, didn't I?

Then I told you about how 'good' the laws from a falsehood book like the Bible can be, didn't I?

dk · 03-18-2003, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion
And I told you about falsehoods in the Bible, didn't I?

Then I told you about how 'good' the laws from a falsehood book like the Bible can be, didn't I?

You told me, hmmm, so I guess that makes your words incarnate?

Come on Ion. You have no claim on me, or I on you.

Ion · 03-18-2003, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dk

...
Come on Ion. You have no claim on me, or I on you.

I don't have claim on you, no.

What I told you is only food for thought.

lpetrich · 03-20-2003, 01:02 AM

I don't see how there has to be an unmoved mover -- there is nothing self-contradictory about an infinite sequence of cause and effort.

And if there is one, how can we be sure that there is only one, and not two or three or even a large number of them?

dk · 03-20-2003, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich
I don't see how there has to be an unmoved mover -- there is nothing self-contradictory about an infinite sequence of cause and effort.

And if there is one, how can we be sure that there is only one, and not two or three or even a large number of them?

You're right, and the universe being an infinate sequence of cause and effect is monistic, or one thing that appears to be many things. So the question turns on how the many things that exist essentially differ from one another. If they differ by nothing then they are the same thing, and if they differ by something then they must be nothing. Parmenides posed the problem, and Spinoza offered extreme monism as a solution. Others offer atomism, virtual atomism etc...

Ion · 03-20-2003, 04:27 PM

Tat's why promoting faith in something unsupported and disproven by contradictions (like the Bible), is not logical.

dk · 03-20-2003, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ion
That's why promoting faith in something unsupported and disproven by contradictions (like the Bible), is not logical.

What you believe about the Bible is a contradiction, and people can believe what they want because they are created with free will. That's what the Bible says.

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03-20-2003, 01:02 AM	#267
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	I don't see how there has to be an unmoved mover -- there is nothing self-contradictory about an infinite sequence of cause and effort. And if there is one, how can we be sure that there is only one, and not two or three or even a large number of them?

03-20-2003, 04:27 PM	#269
Ion Banned Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: San Diego, California Posts: 2,817	Tat's why promoting faith in something unsupported and disproven by contradictions (like the Bible), is not logical.

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