Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Cretinist · 03-06-2003, 07:25 AM

No one is supposed to talk to Amos. In fact, it is an unwritten rule to never directly address him under any circumstance. You may make threads about him, or laugh at him, but don't talk to him.

As for the Russell quote, it's more than likely bogus. Russell was quite the pacifist, and you can find anti-nazi statements in his books.

And I personally would suggest taking Russell's A History of Western Philosophy with a grain of salt. The first two sections are fine, but the section on modern philosophy is quite bad. It's amazing just how wrong he got Nietzsche, for instance. Also, he devotes 3 chaptes to Locke, but 17 pages to Kant. Just horrible.

Primal · 03-06-2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

That's fair enough and that makes him a 'believer' with a right to express his unbelief in the mainstream viewpoint. That, however does not make him a philospher in my view.

Yeah but it doesn't rule him out as a philosopher either....

themistocles · 03-06-2003, 04:12 PM

In a feeble attempt to hijack this thread, I've heard that Gandhi suggest that Jews commit mass suicide to avoid the Holocaust and win over world sympathy. Which is quite a unique stance, I'd say.

However, I've never been able to verify this stance. While I think Gandhi is probably the most grossly over-rated figure in history, I'm not sure I can believe he ever suggested self-extermination for the Jews. Anyone have any sources to prove he said it or any debunked myths sort of sources?

Toto · 03-06-2003, 04:52 PM

a source for this quote

Quote:

I suppose that given the unspeakable events that occurred during World War II that it is understandable that fifty years later we are still learning about and coming to terms with this history. For example, we are only just learning about the collusion of supposedly neutral factions, the manner in which financial institutions supported and profited from an alliance with Hitler's Germany, and the role of Pope Pius XII in Hitler's rise (in John Cornwell's fascinating book). Given this time of reflection, and in light of the statue of Mahatma Gandhi that is supposed to be placed near Dupont Circle, I think that it is important to consider Gandhi's comments about the Holocaust. In 1946 Gandhi said: �Hitler killed five million [sic] Jews. It is the greatest crime of our time. But the Jews should have offered themselves to the butchers knife. They should have thrown themselves into the sea from cliffs.� When asked: �You mean that the Jews should have committed collective suicide?� He replied: �Yes, that would have been heroism.�

also Mahatma Gandhi; Saint, Hero, Weirdo

nermal · 03-06-2003, 09:19 PM

New here, so if I am breaching some etiquette rule, let me know. The philosophical musings are interesting, but historically, Bertrand Russel was a Leninist. I believe that would all but preclude him from being a Nazi sympathizer.

Ed

DoubleDutchy · 03-07-2003, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nermal
but historically, Bertrand Russel was a Leninist.

Not quite, he actually was a Latter Day Saint but unwilling to admit it in public. His much-talked-about conversion to VooDoo-ism at the age of 97 should not be taken at face value.

:boohoo:

Russell biography

One of his most controversial books was The Practice and Theory of Bolshevism, written after a visit to Russia in 1920. He had welcomed the Bolshevik revolution in 1917, but the reality quickly disillusioned him and he found himself 'infinitely unhappy in this atmosphere -- stifled by its utilitarianism, its indifference to love and beauty and the life of impulse'. Russell was impressed with Lenin's strength, which 'comes, I imagine, from his honesty, courage, & unwavering faith -- religious faith in Marxian orthodoxy, which takes the place of the Xtian martyr's hope of paradise, except that it is less egotistical. He has as little love of liberty as the men who suffered under Diocletian & retaliated (on heretical Xtians) when they acquired power.'

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03-06-2003, 07:25 AM	#21
Cretinist Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hell Posts: 399	No one is supposed to talk to Amos. In fact, it is an unwritten rule to never directly address him under any circumstance. You may make threads about him, or laugh at him, but don't talk to him. As for the Russell quote, it's more than likely bogus. Russell was quite the pacifist, and you can find anti-nazi statements in his books. And I personally would suggest taking Russell's A History of Western Philosophy with a grain of salt. The first two sections are fine, but the section on modern philosophy is quite bad. It's amazing just how wrong he got Nietzsche, for instance. Also, he devotes 3 chaptes to Locke, but 17 pages to Kant. Just horrible.

03-06-2003, 04:12 PM	#23
themistocles Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: las vegas, nevada Posts: 670	In a feeble attempt to hijack this thread, I've heard that Gandhi suggest that Jews commit mass suicide to avoid the Holocaust and win over world sympathy. Which is quite a unique stance, I'd say. However, I've never been able to verify this stance. While I think Gandhi is probably the most grossly over-rated figure in history, I'm not sure I can believe he ever suggested self-extermination for the Jews. Anyone have any sources to prove he said it or any debunked myths sort of sources?

03-06-2003, 09:19 PM	#25
nermal Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,969	New here, so if I am breaching some etiquette rule, let me know. The philosophical musings are interesting, but historically, Bertrand Russel was a Leninist. I believe that would all but preclude him from being a Nazi sympathizer. Ed

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