ex-robot

There is no doubt in my mind that this is true in many cases. There is also no doubt in my mind that many atheists use evolution as an excuse for their rejection of god.
I agree, but there is much more to this than just the origin of life and how we share a common ancestor with primates.
I agree that "some" yecs are like this and don't help things. The same goes for evolutionists who paint yec with such a broad brush and say if you reject some things, you reject most/all others.
This is patently false. Public schools have nobody to blame but themselves and the government for dumbing down our kids. You and others are still equating the rejection of the common descent of all organisms with all of science. YEC are not trying to get science thrown out, etc. YEC scientists love science as much as the next guy. They try and cure cancer, hiv, malaria, etc. just like any other scientist except they might have a little help from above. Just as many evolutionists are busy doing research, I am sure there are plenty of yec scientists who are not involved as well.
See, this is the problem. If you define "evolution", yec will say it did happen.

"All" scientists study the evidence? That would mean yec study the evidence as well.
yep, that is pretty far out there
If all YECS are like you say (which they are not), then they would say you and all other scientists are evil and really stupid. It seems that there is no shades of gray for you or other evolutionists either.
I see this as a small minority and not the case in general. They would have to demonize yec scientists as well.
So do YEC scientists.
No, they are attacking a particular area.
Yes, the same method yec scientists use to find cures for disease, etc. YEC is not anti-science just like Evolutionists as a whole are not anti-god.
That's not the problem for the most part. They just don't agree that it did or does. I think most yec would consider gravity and common descent of all life is comparing apples and oranges.
and scale of change, directly observable change, etc.
apples and oranges again, but this all boils down to not liking a term in most cases. If it is actually variation and selection(even though it could be called "evolution" as a whole), then obviously she just doesn't like the term "evolution" and is correct.

xr

Sauron

Yep, the banned me as well.

Evidently I'm in good company.

RufusAtticus

Ex-robot, can we continue the discussion in this other thread.

Novel Features: <a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000295" target="_blank">http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=58&t=000295</a>

babelfish

Scigirl -

Regarding your last post on this thread, as a fan I just wanted to say: <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

Ex-robot -

Have you ever tuned in your local Christian radio station? Based on what I hear on the station I listen to, Young Earth Creationists do indeed believe that mainstream scientists are either sadly deluded by satan or part of a grand conspiracy to keep god out of the minds of our children.

Sephiroth

Ex-robot, when people believe that the Earth is 6,000 years old then they're denying not only evolution but geology, astronomy, and metallurgy (sp?) as well. Not to mention that there are not many YEC scientists and that Creationists just love to repeat the same tired old lies such as how an old moon should have feets upon feets of dust (when there's no wind or animals on the moon in the first place!). The guys are just not as intellectually honest as you would like to think they are.

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Sephiroth ]</p>

ex-robot

This is an all-or-nothing attitude that yecs are guilty of according to other evolutionists.
? Where did you get this info? You are not one of those evolutionists who like to continually lie or who are willfully ignorant about real scientists who are yec?
The majority stopped the moon dust argument in 1993. I don't know about outright lies, but the continuing rehasing of crap abounds.
What makes you think that I think they are 100% intellectually honest?

xr

ex-robot

Nope. I don't listen to Christian radio, but I don't doubt that there are certain radio stations that could convince someone of this.

xr

scigirl

Ex-robot said: This is an all-or-nothing attitude that yecs are guilty of according to other evolutionists.

No ex robot it is a simple statement of fact.

There are multiple independent lines of evidence that indicate the earth is billions of years old. One of these lines of evidence includes math (radioactive decay calculations).

I think you do not realize how much science you really have to reject to be a YEC.

scigirl

ex-robot

If you can provide some good evidence other than that they reject specific parts of some fields, I will gladly accept it as fact.
Okay, we both agree they reject radioactive decay calculations. Now what? We still have a ton of science left.

Actually, I realize how much science there is and rejecting some is not all. People can be warped on aspects of things and still have a firm grasp on others.

xr

HRG

Less than you think. Rejecting calculations of radioactive decay requires rejecting both (parts of) quantum mechanics and the invariance of natural laws under time translations. Since the latter is equivalent to conservation of energy (via Noether's theorem, if you want to be technical), the 1st law of thermodynamics has to go as well.

I doubt anything will remain standing once such basic foundations have been withdrawn.

Regards,
HRG.