Theli

I have another question...

For the person who claims that we have no free will:
How would you define real free will?

Amos

When you have a persona you have a dual nature. When you are an individual you have a dual naure.
When you have a subconscious mind you have a dual nature.

When you conscious mind unites with your subconscious mind you lost your dual nature.

When Atlantis dissolved in the see it was no more.

In heaven earth is no more while yet on earth heaven can exist because "our souls have sight of that immortal sea" (Intimations of Immortality)."

Rev.21:1 ". . . and the sea was no longer."

Rev.22:5 "The night shall be no more."

In Rev.21:1 reason speaks and therefore the subconscious mind is gone and when the subconscious speaks (Rev.22:5) the darkness of reason is no more.

Instinct is the memory of the soul and is placed there by previous generations.

Woman has no soul because human has a soul. Woman is the soul of man and so only humans have a soul. This is why woman was taken from man and was not ever created. Females have souls because females are part human and part woman.

Free Will is to be of one mind after the convergence of "human and woman" and arrive in the nueter "man." Hence no marriage in heaven.

[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Infinity Lover

Would you care to use that as a pickup line?

If you have a girlfriend/wife, I can't help but feel sorry for her.

Kent Stevens

If free will is used in a legal sense as meaning that someone freely chose to do something, I see no problem with this, as it means freedom.

If free will means that we choose independently of the gods or the fates, then these agencies would not be very powerful in determining us. An all perfect God would cause people to do evil when they do sin. Religious free will is bunk because it says we do things without cause.

It is an illusion if we think that we are outside the restraints of physical or absolute necessity. We are like all systems in that we are determined. The weather is not outside of physical or absolute necessity and neither are we. Some people argue that we just assume this property when making moral judgements, but I think that we do not have to make this assumption in order to judge. We still have freedom to act whether we engage in philosophical arguments about free will or not.

If we want to differentiate human decision making from animals we can use the terms "human will" or "human choice". The term free will in itself is too vague and on simple interpretation could apply to freely acting snails.

[ September 03, 2002: Message edited by: Kent Stevens ]</p>

davidH

Interesting - the last time I was on a topic of free will, everyone was arguing that we had no freewill.

If that be the case, who do and can we punish?
(in terms of criminals).

Although I argued this, people on that topic still stuck with there being no free will.

Theli

Amos...

I should have asked you for a real answer, not for you to spread fairydust on my question.
Could you please explain this without wandering off?

I thought they were always united. Why is this a duality?

Where did you get Atlantis from?
What relevance does Atlantis have to do with the conciousness?

Ooooohhhh?
Now I get it, heaven is a cheese because rat is the earth?

or to elaborate my point:
I be hear because my head is cheese there.
It could also mean that "From the spike the balls hungers for cheese in my year".
Moving on...

"The darkness of reason" Sounds pretty creapy.
Is reason like the dark side of the force. If that is a point then you, Amos are a Jedi.

Did my parents force instincts into my head?
What if I lived on a deserted island, whould I have no survival instincts at all?
BTW, why do you keep calling it "soul"?

Women aren't human?
Oh, dear...

Ok... Women are souls. Men own souls. Men own women?

How was she taken from man when she didn't exist?

Now women has souls?
I would think that they are both human and women (some of them atleast), not 50% this and 50% that.

My head are cheese, earth is sandwich, we are breakfast.

Bummer.

ybnormal

A most interesting topic, in spite of the fairydust... I've only read the first and then this page 6, so if this idea has been trashed, please disregard...

Of course, I certainly want to believe that I have what I perceive as "Free Will".

I can't grasp anyone telling me that I won't exhibit that free will if I choose to off myself. Altho I may have contemplated doing that from time to time over the years, I probably have more interest in living longer now, than at most other periods of my life... then again, if I believe that the instant my brain dies, I'll not know that this self ever even existed, so I could just as easily decide now, to flip a coin next Thursday, and if tails comes up....


Motivated survival is an instinct necessary for any speices to survive and reproduce. Speices with the instinct survives, speices without it dies, nothing strange about it.

OK! So, uh, are there any other known systems or organisms that have been proven to have acting-alone individual members, which exhibit the ability to choose the time, place and method of their own demise?

Amos

Suicide is an alternative but if you are truly in charge of your own destiny why don't you just stop your heart and die that way? --and don't tell me now that your heart has a mind of it's own.

See the dualism in "I choose to off myself" wherein the "I" chooses to kill the "self"?

Laurentius

AVE

Religious free will may be bunk, but free will is not. Freewill is the sum of volitive processes occuring at the level of a highly self-regulating system that identifies itself as a reasoning "I" and responsibly assumes its own purposes and means to achive them. (I am restating this working definition because I think it hasn't been properly addressed.)

I find it quite irrelevant, or at least inadequate, to look up a term in an ordinary dictionary in order to find its philosophical significance - a philosophical dictionary would be more appropriate, I guess, such as
<a href="http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/freewill/" target="_blank">this one.</a>

Free will does not by any means rule out determinism, on the contrary, it subjoins an additional factor to the complex of causalities involved in the human process of decision making, namely the "I" (i.e. the moral agent).

Thus, humans:
(a) form within cultures to grow the sense of right and wrong according to precise moral codes,
(b) have the capacity to project their acts in time and analyze their consequences before they are actually performed, and
(c) are able to objectively identify themselves as the agents of their own deeds, which are consciously assumed.

AVE

crocodile deathroll

Here is an abstract I found which is very relevent for this thread:
[ September 02, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]</p>