Amos

Except for the fact that in this wolrd pleasure cannot be conceived to exist without pain in equal proportions or heaven could not be conceived to exist as its opposite.

ManM

Amos,
Suffering is not necessary to experience joy. I do not need to have eaten warm throwup in order to appreciate a fine filet mignon.

Amos

Enjoy your steak so you may develop the craving desire another one.

Thomas Metcalf

Originally posted by ManM:

"People suffer due to other people's choices all the time. Still, there would be no suffering if everyone chose the good."

I don't agree. What about suffering due to natural events? Does God cause us to suffer natural disasters and disease because we choose evil? What possible use is suffering because of natural events?

tergiversant

People quite often choose to commit evil acts. God never stops them. Thus, God is not intervening to stop people from acting upon their evil desires and choices.

Such (baseless) speculation is wholly irrelevant to my argument, which concerns whether God (and others) ought to interevene to stop people from successfully acting upon their evil desires. If God does not stop people in their attempts to rape or murder, then why should we do so? Given that God is morally perfect, it would seem that we should emulate him in this matter.

God's alleged desire for us to be like him does not explain why God would allow people to commit evil acts such as murder. Until you state clearly why God allows such things, the reason remains unknown.

As to God's supposed desire to destroy all evil, it certainly does not jibe with the fact that God allows people to perform highly evil acts, such as rape and murder.

Perhaps you believe that the best way for an all-powerful being to eradicate moral evil is to allow it to go unchecked?

If you believe that God has good utilitarian reasons for allowing people to do evil things, why do you not think those reasons apply to your own ethical decision making? Would you not consider yourself morally obligated to prevent murder, given the chance?

[ September 21, 2002: Message edited by: tergiversant ]</p>