Buffman

I agree with SethK. This is not a Church-State issue. Christian apologists attempt to make it one.

Vorkosigan

I have two children. One will attend a Christian missionary school, the other a local school here in Taiwan. My wife is raising them as Buddhists. I will teach them to think critically about things, but I refuse to indoctrinate -- I consider that unethical. On that grounds alone, Christianity may be considered unethical.

As I am sure you know, if a child is not indoctrinated in one of the Christian beliefs by early adolescence, odds are low that they will ever be a Christian of some flavor. Thus, Dave, by not indoctrinating my child in anything, I fulfill the ethical obligations of avoiding indoctrination without informed consent while at the same time, ensuring that my child will grow up with unorthodox religious beliefs. It's amazing what ethical behavior will do; but of course, if people behaved ethically and did not indoctrinate their children, Christianity would vanish in a generation.

As for evangelizing for atheism, we usually avoid it. Christians react very strongly; they are apt to harass, discriminate, or even engage in violence, when their views are threatened. Perhaps this is a bad move on our part if you view it from a long-term perspective, but given the propensity of Christians to commit violence on those they perceive to be their enemies, I can hardly blame us atheists for keeping a low profile.

An additional factor is that many of us consider evangelizing to be rude and unethical.

Vorkosigan

David Mathews

Hello katlynnhow,

David: Am I to conclude therefore that you approve of your daughter's decision to become a Christian and that you would not object if your atheistic daughter became a theist?

If that is the case, your behavior is praiseworthy.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Seth,

david: When you describe the evidence and reasoning, do you hope that your conclusions are accepted by the person that hears you speak?

When you advocate or defend the atheistic opinion, do you not want the hearers to agree with your viewpoint?

Sincerely,

David Mathews

David Mathews

Hello Everyone,

One point of clarification; This topic is relevant to church - state separation because I suspect that there is an atheistic religion which contains its own set of dogmas, moral & ethical values, and preferred worldview.

I don't imagine that all atheists are (for want of a better word) religious atheists. I do believe that it is possible that some atheists are religious in their approach to atheism.

If anyone objects, please state your objections.

Sincerely,

David Mathews

pz

I would never say never -- there could be pathological individuals who do just about anything -- but no, in general, none of the atheists I've ever known "indoctrinate" anyone. My kids are all more or less atheists, but they've been known to go to church and sunday school with friends, out of curiousity. It doesn't bother me in the least. I hope they've got enough common sense to never grow up to be one of those fundamentalist morons, but I wouldn't be disturbed in the slightest if they adopted some form of theism someday.

pz

Oh, well, then...this issue is easy to deal with.

You're wrong.

You're just trying to wedge ideas you don't understand into your limited point of view. It won't work. It just means that you will persist in misunderstanding everything.

Of course there are atheists who are dogmatic and "religious" in their beliefs, just as there are people who are dogmatic about what brand of mustard they will use. That doesn not mean that there is an "atheist religion" (or "mustard religion").

Toto

This belongs in Misc Religious Discussions. But before I move it I will put in my 2 cents:

A large percentage of atheists think that most people are too weak-minded to get along without religion, and feel that atheism should be reserved for those who are strong enough to deal with it. So they don't evangelize for that reason.

But there have been evangelical atheists in the recent past in this country, and may be again.

ishalon

Any attempts at atheist "evangelism" would be so well covered by America's unbiased, honest,news stations that their success would remove the earth from all theism, and cause thousands of weak persons to commit suicide

HelenM

I suspect that people here will not agree with you that there is an atheistic religion.

What do you believe the dogmas, moral and ethical values and preferred worldview of this atheistic religion are?

I expect people will argue that atheists are not that unified, that you can define their dogmas, moral and ethical values and preferred worldview.

Also that they do not cling to faith or "we simply can't understand God" kinds of answers - which I think of as typifying a religious approach.

Maybe it depends how you define 'religion'.

love
Helen

[ July 05, 2002: Message edited by: HelenSL ]</p>