John Hancock

Ruy Lopez

I appreciate your wish of luck. Having lived in this country (and traveled amongst it's common people for a large portion of my life), I think that (regrettably) few will have the courage to break from the mode prior to dire financial impetus. :boohoo:

Martin

Ruy Lopez

Martin From Mars

Actually the job facing conscientious Americans does not seem grim. You only have to beat Bush in 2004 with a candidate who is not beholden to or planted by the corporate elite and neocons. The poll victory should be by a substantial margin to discourage cheating.

Question is; how to counteract Bush's media dominance. You should be able to devise ways. Bush will probably have a bad recession against him.

emphryio

This is a nice thread.
Ruy
Let's see Clinton. No
Bush I. No
Reagen. No
Carter. No.
Ford. No.
Nixon. Actually he was less beholden to the corporate elite than most, but still definitely No.
Johnson.....? (I don't really know, he had more social programs, a progressive tax, AND VIETNAM)

So I think you make it sound a little bit easier than it may actually be in the short term but:
We'll probably eventually just move slightly back to the left through the internet. As of now it almost seems like the mainstream is moving farther to the right to try to counteract its effect.

The result is an increasingly huge divide between what establishment sources tell you and what you find online.
Has the internet reached its saturation point in viewers? I don't think so.

The mainstream media has two choices: keep on moving farther and farther to the right until things get so ridiculous some sort of breakdown occurs, or be forced to start getting partially honest.

They will probably eventually catch on and do the latter. Thereby saving the establishment from true democracy. But barring something ....crazy / horrendous (relative to recent events being only pretty bad), I don't see how we can't start moving back to the left. Probably slowly, gradually.

Of course, all kinds of unforseen events could happen.

Farren

I knew a US Political Scientist (Berkeley graduate) who was doing a paper on the relaitonship between banks and the former SA government.

He said at one stage that the turnout for a lot of US presidential elections is as low as 25%. Because the sector of society most likely to vote are church-going conservatives, the vote is massively skewed in this direction.

What he was effectively saying is the "counter culture" (in which he counted himself) have largely themselves to blame for the right-listing nature of US politics.

Similarly, it strikes me that the consumer activists most likely to cause trouble for companies for spurious reasons are the ones with the narrowest mindsets.

Obviously people who are committed greens are also going to exert pressure, but in my experience the pool of "Green" lefty types who take the time to engage in activism is smaller than the right wing ordinary joes who will vote with their checkbooks at the drop of an "occult influenced" hat.

Furthermore, greenies are going to be worried about issues in Northern Alaska and Hyderberad, whereas right-wingers are gonna be concerned with what's on the shelves. I think these forces influence companies to adopt a public morality and self-righteousness which reflects a minority in society.

I'm lucky to be living in a country where right-wingers (there's still quite a few) have been cowed into politely simmering while gay marriages are recognised in the constitutional court and "The Vagina Monologues" takes center stage at the theatre.

Sheesh. I've just realised I'm way off topic, but I think we got there long ago.

Ruy Lopez

From emphryio;

Has the internet reached its saturation point in viewers? I don't think so.

The mainstream media has two choices: keep on moving farther and farther to the right until things get so ridiculous some sort of breakdown occurs, or be forced to start getting partially honest.

They will probably eventually catch on and do the latter. Thereby saving the establishment from true democracy. But barring something ....crazy / horrendous (relative to recent events being only pretty bad), I don't see how we can't start moving back to the left. Probably slowly, gradually.

Of course, all kinds of unforseen events could happen.

I like that analytical tool that tries to assess if the rightwing pendulum is indeed near its limits or still has a way to go. There is such a thing as the "right time" under the circumstances. It's the same thing as my favorite cycles. It is better not to contest decisively an opponent that is clearly in ascendance; it's better to wait for the turn of the cards or the cycle reversal; they always come. Major unforeseen events can accelerate or extend timing, of course.

What about Farren's idea of bringing out the liberal vote.There is something there. In my country, there are two rightwing Christian block-voting groups that virtually decide fairly close elections. They make so much money just from the bribe offers all the way from congressional, senatorial and presidential candidates.

emphryio

Voter turnout has been around 50% the last few elections.
Yes, and I don't see how anything can be done about it. The right wingers are better at being little obedient followers. Can't be helped I don't think.
This isn't something I've thought about really. You're right. The WalMart culture. The biggest consumers of useless crap. The people who buy gas guzzlers, etc are more likely to be conservatives. While us liberals are a little more able to entertain ourself without buying or watching crap.

But.... so what? These companies need to be regulated through the government. That is how democracy should work. Not because of how we vote with our dollars. That is a sorry replacement for actual democracy.

Darwin26

pittiful as it is.
Farren, thanks for the back ground. Dave for the URL's and all of you ...it's good to be in a group who aren't ambivilant or republican.
i keep track of the enemy ... as much as i can stomach.
You should have heard O'Reilly sanctioning the actions of Mr. Moral Compass Bill Bennet... it's enough to gag maggots...so i did!
The papers and internet are full of "Where's the WMD's???" over the last week. PRWatch, AlterNet, Ny Times, on an on...perhaps this will be a crack in the armor?
But for sure the Xian Reich is clearly supporting the invasion WMD's or no... The Xian Reich is organized and they are strung together all over America... true believer, bible thumpers are the bane of every liberal dem, greenie or other free thinkers... and i've no doubt they played a big part in Apartheid...(but correct me if i'm wrong).
The deceit and deceiveness of the current regime is held in place by the Xian Reich. Gary Baurers, Bill Bennet along with other top Gov't officials are members of the Project for a New American Century... long wanting to take IRAQ...
Organizing "liberals" is like herding cats... when we find the right path we will set the Reich down... but we must do it before they pass UPA II and take the rest of our rights away. We here on this thread will be co conspirators plotting the over throw of the regime ... i don't mean to sound alarmist but it's for real .
These Thugs in office now with all their lies and innuendos scare me ... i fear they will suspend my constitution and instead of the defacto martial law mentioned by Ruy Lopez (a great chess opening) we will be under martial law... All those gung ho soldiers coming back with no place to go and chopping at the bit for MORE!
We need to make all the politcal hay out of every bit of bogus crap and shove it down the throats of the Xian Reich till they gag... We need a Democrate who has no fear of them.