Infinity Lover

On the topic of awareness in the here and now: I just had a deja vu methinks.

I'm thoroughly enjoying "The Tao of Pooh and the Te of piglet" at the moment btw (and a thx to Sweep for reccomending it). Anyone read that one?

Waning Moon Conrad

Nyingma lineage. I lived for a couple of years at Traleg Rinpoche's centre here in Melbourne. He's Karma Kagyu but holds Nyingma lineage as well and seems to specialize quite heavily in Longchen Rabjyampa.

lugotorix

Chan Buddhist. Chan is the Chinese parent of Zen. The two traditions are fairly similar, although there are some subtle differences. Chan has a more developed devotional side -- it incorporated a lot of Pure Land practices. It also seems less militaristic and less anti-intelllectual than the Japanese Zen traditions I've been exposed to.

lugotorix

Whispers

As long as the traditions practiced revolve around the four noble truths, and insight into awakening, they are all the same.

never been there

Practicing - no, unless an on-again-off-again bit of Asian martial arts counts as Zen. But my ex-GF called me a Buddhist by nature. G.B.'s grudging attitude to women turns me off any actual practice. And Theravada doctrine is even worse in that respect, which rules out the most thoroughly atheist branch of Buddhists for me.

Opera Nut

I'm an atheist and have been a Unitarian for a couple of decades.

I recently started attending a large Mahayana Buddhist temple in our local Chinese community. There are about 40 english speakers there and we have our own Sunday meditation and lecture.

I find Buddhism to be very deep and challenging. I am also able to stay atheist and study Buddhism as a way of life. I have come to the conclusion that Western Civilization, and Christianity, in particular, are dead and irrelevant and unimaginative.

The Indian and Chinese cultures are much much older than the Western Europe culture we are immersed in and I think they have some truths that are not available in European culture.

I enjoy going to the Buddhist temple and looking at totally different statues, architecture etc and studying a different philosophy.

Whispers

In those days(when the Thereavadan scriptures were taken down), women were assigned a far lesser role than they have now. Any theory or belief as to the importance of women, is simply that, a belief or theory and has no bearing on the nature of truth or awakening.

andy_d

...and my lama holds Nyingma transmitions, too

That's got to be a good thing. Competition between lineages of transmission would only weaken dharma as a whole, IMO.

Like Whispers said though, dharma is dharma, no matter what route it has taken to get to you. We're very lucky these days in that we have such good opportunities to find the style that suits us best.

bagong

The position of women in the Theravada is no worse or better than in Mahayana. Both categorically assert that gender is irrelevant to one's capacity for Awakening, while nuns are subordinate to monks in ALL Vinaya (monastic law) traditions. Yes, full female ordination nowadays only survives in China, but this is the result of historical vagaries, not a doctrinal issue.

The subordinate position of nuns applies only to ceremonial and discipline, NOT any substantive aspects of the practice. It was designed to guard the respectability of the Sangha in the eyes of the laity, and ensure the safety of the nuns themselves. If nuns did not defer to monks in public, the Buddhist Sangha would have been the laughing stock of ancient India (Consider how funny "gender role reversal" is still considered today. Now imagine 6th century BC India, where before Buddhism it was absolutely forbidden for women to be involved in religious life.) The various rules forbidding nuns to travel without the company of monks were formulated after nuns were raped while travelling/ meditating in the woods alone.

Finally, some words from the Theravada Canon:

Soma Sutta SN V.2

At Savatthi. Then, early in the morning, Soma the nun put on her robes and, taking her bowl & outer robe, went into Savatthi for alms. When she had gone for alms in Savatthi and had returned from her alms round, after her meal she went to the Grove of the Blind to spend the day. Having gone deep into the Grove of the Blind, she sat down at the foot of a tree for the day's abiding.
Then Mara the Evil One, wanting to arouse fear, horripilation, & terror in her, wanting to make her fall away from concentration, approached her & addressed her in verse:

That
which is
to be attained by seers
-- the place so very hard to reach --
women
can't
-- with their two-inch discernment --
attain.

Then the thought occurred to Soma the nun: "Now who has recited this verse -- a human being or a non-human one?" Then it occurred to her: "This is Mara the Evil One, who has recited this verse wanting to arouse fear, horripilation, & terror in me, wanting to make me fall away from concentration."
Then, having understood that "This is Mara the Evil One," she replied to him in verses:

What
difference
does being a woman make
when the mind's well-centered,
when knowledge is progressing,
seeing clearly, rightly,
into the Dhamma.
Anyone who thinks
'I'm a woman'
or 'a man'
or 'Am I anything at all?' --
that's who Mara's
fit to address.

Then Mara the Evil One -- sad & dejected at realizing, "Soma the nun knows me" -- vanished right there.

Nowhere357

Explain why you say that Buddism is shallow.

In what way is Christianity "more detestable", and more important, in what way is xianity more profound?