Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Vicar Philip · 01-31-2003, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blondegoddess
One was whether he would have married me if I had been a Buddist...or an atheist. He said no, he didn't go along with that belief. I then asked if he'd love me if I were now a Buddist... or an atheist. He said no.

Damn, where have I heard THAT before? Oh yeah. From my own loving wife.

I find it a little ironic that you and I both came to this realization about our faith almost at the same time, and yet we're faced with the exact opposite spouse problem. I hope it works out for BOTH of us.

I know what you mean about valuing others' lives. Today this evil atheist donated blood again, I think I'm on like 2.5 gallons now. It's awful being so selfish.

beth · 01-31-2003, 08:19 PM

I know. I just wish that I could enter back into never never land and believe again. I tried to today. I almost did and then I realized I was deluding myself. I was so sad. It felt wonderful to believe in God again. I was so depressed people in the stores were asking me if I was okay. They are used to me being cheerful.

copernicus · 01-31-2003, 10:38 PM

Blondegoddess, it seems ironic to me that one of the most fundamental teachings of Christ is to "love your enemy", yet so many Christians profess an inability to love even family members who have become apostates. Anyway, I don't really consider such statements to be sincere. It strikes me that your husband is going through a crisis as well, and one tends to behave in extreme ways during emotional crises. He might see your questions as attempts to make him choose between loyalty to you and his religious convictions. You can't really just decide to fall in love with someone (or out of love) any more than you can decide to believe (or disbelieve) in a god. Both conditions seem to be things that just happen, whether we want them to or not.

capnkirk · 02-01-2003, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by blondegoddess
I almost told my husband tonight. I felt overwelmed with guilt over keeping this from him. He told me that my heart was golden. I asked him what he meant. He told me he saw the love of the lord in me and i show it to everyone. I started asking him typical ensnaring questions, the kind most guys avoid. One was whether he would have married me if I had been a Buddist...or an atheist. He said no, he didn't go along with that belief. I then asked if he'd love me if I were now a Buddist... or an atheist. He said no. If my heart is so golden, why does my faith depend on it? Since I've lost my faith, I've been an even nicer and more considerate person. I've valued the lives of others as well as mine even more.

Be thankful that you haven't lost your instincts along with your faith. You are being very wise to seek out and understand the foundation of his love and commitment to you and to the marriage BEFORE you commit to a separation (mentally or physically). Ultimately, it will come down to whether he can recognize that "the love of the lord" he sees in you is just your real and natural self shining through. If he can, maybe the marriage has a chance. If he can't, then you will have to accept that he is more in love with his symbols than with the reality of you they (imperfectly) represent. It sounds as if he is also telling you that it is necessary for you to share his faith for there to be a marriage in his eyes.

About the only basis left for negotiation lis characterized by a line that I from time to time have used to confront those around me who are constantly witnessing and trying to bring me into the fold, "I can forgive you your faith, if you can forgive me my lack of one." If the marriage can't come to that emotional equilibrium, it is crippled if not actually ended. That is a harsh reality. Unless he can forgive you your lack of faith, he cannot be a husband to you in his own eyes.

I continue to wish you only the best,

beth · 02-01-2003, 05:47 AM

Right, but we are also taught not to have anything to do romantically with a person of another faith. It is considered a sin to marry someone who is not saved. He also believes that it is impossible for a true believer to truly lose faith, like I did. So in his mind, I would have been deceiving him all these years.

I've already gotten this reaction with a few close friends I've told. They moved to Europe, so I IM'ed them with my news. I'm now on their ignore list and all my email is blocked. These were my best friends growing up. The shunning has begun. If it's this dramatic long distance, I can't imagine how bad it'll be locally.

beth · 02-01-2003, 05:53 AM

Thanks Capnkirk.

Vicar Philip · 02-01-2003, 05:55 AM

I'm very sorry to hear that even your friends have turned from you. I haven't had that response. I really don't have many close friends anyway, but it seems the more acquaintances I speak to about my beliefs, the more I find have the same damn doubts I do.

Have you talked to your parents about any of this? My mother gives me a sympathetic ear even though she still believes, but my dad is right alongside me. What did it for him was watching his father die a slow, painful death in a hospital bed. Whatever doubts he had were clarified for him then.

I hope things get better for you, and know that lots of us are thinking about you.

Take care.

Vicar

beth · 02-01-2003, 06:06 AM

No, I haven't spoken to my parents. My mother disowned me several years ago and just recently started talking to me again. I avoid her as much as possible. My step-father raised me. It'll hurt him. I can't tell him right now. He'll probably mention it to all my step-brothers and cousins out of despair and concern for me. I don't understand any of this. My friends did not act like Christians. They hadn't even been to church in years. I guess they just felt that I had deceived them.

What's worse is I live in a small suburbian town. There are churches everywhere. Everyone here is a Baptist. I've already had clashes with them because I'm not a Baptist. I have religious pressure from all around. The only atheists or agnostics friend I have are first and foremost my husband's. They get into debates all the time. He always wins. But I'm sure they will repeat everything. I have a few friends who are eclectic witches. They just opened a shop that has a little coffee and tea nook for socialization. I guess I'll go hand out there more. They even think Atheism is a crock, though.

...and thanks for the kind words.

beth · 02-03-2003, 06:13 AM

Well, that's it! The bomb has been dropped and I'm about to enter into hell. He now knows, but this revelation was quite accidental. And Vicar, yes, my husband is much like your wife. I can just read your thread and predict my future. I pity us both.

I won't go into details right now, as the whole thing is just too depressing. I'm trying not to allow myself to get depressed today. But I can say I don't see a lot of hope.

Godless Dave · 02-03-2003, 06:30 AM

Good luck, BG. It's too bad he found out before you were ready to tell him. I hope things aren't too terrible right now.

02-01-2003, 05:47 AM	#305
beth Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: where orange blossoms bloom... Posts: 1,802	Copernicus: Right, but we are also taught not to have anything to do romantically with a person of another faith. It is considered a sin to marry someone who is not saved. He also believes that it is impossible for a true believer to truly lose faith, like I did. So in his mind, I would have been deceiving him all these years. I've already gotten this reaction with a few close friends I've told. They moved to Europe, so I IM'ed them with my news. I'm now on their ignore list and all my email is blocked. These were my best friends growing up. The shunning has begun. If it's this dramatic long distance, I can't imagine how bad it'll be locally.

02-01-2003, 06:06 AM	#308
beth Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: where orange blossoms bloom... Posts: 1,802	Vicar: No, I haven't spoken to my parents. My mother disowned me several years ago and just recently started talking to me again. I avoid her as much as possible. My step-father raised me. It'll hurt him. I can't tell him right now. He'll probably mention it to all my step-brothers and cousins out of despair and concern for me. I don't understand any of this. My friends did not act like Christians. They hadn't even been to church in years. I guess they just felt that I had deceived them. What's worse is I live in a small suburbian town. There are churches everywhere. Everyone here is a Baptist. I've already had clashes with them because I'm not a Baptist. I have religious pressure from all around. The only atheists or agnostics friend I have are first and foremost my husband's. They get into debates all the time. He always wins. But I'm sure they will repeat everything. I have a few friends who are eclectic witches. They just opened a shop that has a little coffee and tea nook for socialization. I guess I'll go hand out there more. They even think Atheism is a crock, though. ...and thanks for the kind words.

02-03-2003, 06:13 AM	#309
beth Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: where orange blossoms bloom... Posts: 1,802	He knows.... Well, that's it! The bomb has been dropped and I'm about to enter into hell. He now knows, but this revelation was quite accidental. And Vicar, yes, my husband is much like your wife. I can just read your thread and predict my future. I pity us both. I won't go into details right now, as the whole thing is just too depressing. I'm trying not to allow myself to get depressed today. But I can say I don't see a lot of hope.

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01-31-2003, 08:19 PM	#302
beth Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: where orange blossoms bloom... Posts: 1,802	I know. I just wish that I could enter back into never never land and believe again. I tried to today. I almost did and then I realized I was deluding myself. I was so sad. It felt wonderful to believe in God again. I was so depressed people in the stores were asking me if I was okay. They are used to me being cheerful.

01-31-2003, 10:38 PM	#303
copernicus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Bellevue, WA Posts: 1,531	Blondegoddess, it seems ironic to me that one of the most fundamental teachings of Christ is to "love your enemy", yet so many Christians profess an inability to love even family members who have become apostates. Anyway, I don't really consider such statements to be sincere. It strikes me that your husband is going through a crisis as well, and one tends to behave in extreme ways during emotional crises. He might see your questions as attempts to make him choose between loyalty to you and his religious convictions. You can't really just decide to fall in love with someone (or out of love) any more than you can decide to believe (or disbelieve) in a god. Both conditions seem to be things that just happen, whether we want them to or not.

02-01-2003, 05:53 AM	#306
beth Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: where orange blossoms bloom... Posts: 1,802	Thanks Capnkirk.

02-01-2003, 05:55 AM	#307
Vicar Philip Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Cozy little chapel of me own Posts: 1,162	I'm very sorry to hear that even your friends have turned from you. I haven't had that response. I really don't have many close friends anyway, but it seems the more acquaintances I speak to about my beliefs, the more I find have the same damn doubts I do. Have you talked to your parents about any of this? My mother gives me a sympathetic ear even though she still believes, but my dad is right alongside me. What did it for him was watching his father die a slow, painful death in a hospital bed. Whatever doubts he had were clarified for him then. I hope things get better for you, and know that lots of us are thinking about you. Take care. Vicar

02-03-2003, 06:30 AM	#310
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	Good luck, BG. It's too bad he found out before you were ready to tell him. I hope things aren't too terrible right now.

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