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Old 05-07-2003, 05:16 PM   #11
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Default Re: 16 billion years, relatively speaking

Quote:
Originally posted by Qinopio
[regarding http://www.aish.com/societywork/scie...e_Universe.asp]

I recently came across this article regarding the age of the universe. It's similar to other "extended day" arguments, but it seems to be written with a real respect for science. I was wondering if anyone here with a better knowledge of the early universe and physics could find any problems with the last part of the article - "15 billion or six days?". It's about 3/4 down.

A discussion of the first parts is more suited for the BC&A board, but it basically says that using only major pre-modern (and thus pre-modern science) scholars' comments on the Creation story, we arrive with some conclusions that are oddly in line with the current Big Bang model.

The last part - correct me if I'm wrong - says that if we were measuring time from the time and place that the Big Bang occured, then about 6,000 years would have passed as compared with our ~16 billion.

Is the expansion constant of one trillion valid?
Is the section "15 billion or six days?" mostly accurate? I'd appreciate any response I can get. Thanks
Particle physicist Victor Stenger has written a review of this argument (where it appears in The Science of God) on the Internet Infidels site: http://www.infidels.org/library/mode...er/schrev.html
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Old 05-07-2003, 11:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Qinopio
Density-based time dilation also wouldn't happen, then? Oh, and maybe I was wrong to interpret his statement as implying measuning from any specific place. His basic assertion that signals sent at the Big Bang would be dilated is false? If so, why is he saying that you can find this expansion constant in physics textbooks?


JTDC: Telling me to just assume things?
In his case, yes.

Density based time dialtion would occur, but there is a slight problem with this: namely, in the early universe (during it's ultra-fast expansion), it contained ZERO matter. No time dilation could therefore have occured due to density until much later (as in on the order of 10^3 seconds after the fact--all things considered, a long time for then).

There is a "point" in space that is the center of the Big Bang (more or less)--this would be the center of the universe. Since there isn't much in the way of matter there though, his argument is utter crap in a hat. He knows it too, or is deliberately ignorant of this. Either way, it's a lie.
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Old 05-07-2003, 11:47 PM   #13
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On top of this, the universe is known to be homogenous and isotropic. This means that on large enough scales (but still quite small with respect to the size of the universe), the universe has uniform density, which precludes the idea of density-based time dialation at any one preferential point. Given the uniformity of the CMB, the early universe must have been exceedingly homogenous and isotropic. Even if it wasn't homogenous, one would still expect there to be no net gravitational force at the origin of the big bang. Think about it, what's the gravitional acceleration at the center of any isotropic sphere (i.e. density can be a function of radius but not theta or phi)?
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