RobertE

What peeves me the most about this whole "Catholic Church in Crisis" crap is the fact that the Church has known about this sort of thing for at least 30 years and probably more. (I know several people who are still recovering from being sexually abused by priests over 25 years ago.) The most damning thing against the church as an organization is that it proclaims itself to be the One and Only True Church, and as such, the very pinnacle of moral and virtuous behavior as preordained by Jebus Almighty Himself. Yet when confronted with the fact that many of its official members have and continue to commit agregious and rephrensible acts, the Church suddenly pretends that it is simply an organization of ordinary, fallible men. Yeah, right. Either you're holy as all get out or you aint. Which is it, pope-boy?

The Church itself can and should be held culpible for the actions of it's clergy. After all, it claims to perform all sorts of holy and secret rituals and investigations to divine whether or not it's acolytes are worthy of membership. Surely with the help of god, it should be able to figure out which of its members are fucking perverts. And if it knows who the perverts are but chooses not to do anything about it, the bishops deserve to hang along with the priests.

This is completely different from , say, a professional organization like the AMA or your local chamber of commerce. If either of those organizations learned it had a member who liked to fuck under age boys, that member would be trotted before the local prosecuter faster than you can say "bugger". No, the Christian religion itself isn't guilty, but this particular religious institution sure as hell is.

BTW, You don't need to keep your kids locked up until they are adults, but you absolutely be just as leery of sending your child to be an alter boy as to the local scouting group, a music teacher, baby sitter, or school. Pedophiles lurk anywhere there is access to children. That means schools, churches, day care centers, scouting groups and camps. Being a Roman Catholic priest seems to provide better cover. Hopefully those days are over.

Ranma Saotome

Haha! That's pretty funny. Sad, that this occurence is popular enough to satirize, but funny nonetheless.

Okay, so you're saying just because the people in charge can't divine which potential priests are pedophiles or not is proof that the entire system should be damned?? How easy is it to hide things like that, if someone has no previous record? Also, what if the sexual perversions actually develop because of the life of the priest--because they are expected to be so virtuous, they have to repress all of their sexual thoughts. Who can blame them for acting out? About God not telling them who the perverts are, well, who has proof that God actually helps people in that way? Maybe he likes to sit back and let them make their own mistakes.

[ March 25, 2002: Message edited by: Ranma Saotome ]</p>

Goliath

I'm sickened whenever I hear about pedophile priests.

In an ideal world, a priest caught molesting children would not only be castrated, but legal action would be taken against any and every church that either attempted to hide and cover for the pedophile, or any church that did not immediately report the pedophile to the authorities. And yes, I mean any and every church, including the Vatican.

Sincerely,

Goliath

sullster

Well, Goliath, it certainly isn't an ideal world, that is for sure. Here, around Boston, the cardinal who moved lots of diddler priests around is stubbornly staying in office. The scandal continues to explode with new reports every day. What is so distressing, is to read about people who tried to get molesting priests out by talking to church authorities, only to be told to shut up and pray. One guy confronted cardinal Law with a complaint once, and the good card put his hand on the guy's shoulder and prayed some nonsense.

Religion has too much status in American culture. This crisis in the RC might have the effect of making us realize that all religion is just another human organization with all the problems of any other. Also, religion's place in society should not be excluded from the laws. Police should be allowed to drag a pedophile clergyman out of a church in cuffs.

Godless Dave

I don't expect them to divine which priests are potential pedophiles. I just expect them to do something about the pedophile priests they already know about.

It's even easier if the church keeps the record secret, and covers up the crimes it knows about.

Thanks, you've made our point for us. The structure, policies, and teachings of the Catholic church may have contributed to the crimes of these priests, and definitely enabled them to continue for years, even after they had been reported.

MOJO-JOJO

What a shame that this is only satire!!

diana

Okay, so you're saying just because the people in charge can't divine which potential priests are pedophiles or not is proof that the entire system should be damned??

No. The fact that the organization continues to cover it up and pretend it didn't happen is reason for the entire system to be brought under close scrutiny.

How easy is it to hide things like that, if someone has no previous record?

Dead easy, my good man, particularly if all the sheep can't get past the idea that the collars are spokesmen for God Almighty. That's our point.

Also, what if the sexual perversions actually develop because of the life of the priest--because they are expected to be so virtuous, they have to repress all of their sexual thoughts. Who can blame them for acting out?

I can blame them, and I do. They made the choice to accept the stipulations of the office they hold, and their parishoners tend to see them as more pure than laymen, and confer upon them the respect and trust that comes with the office. The respectable thing to do would be to resign the office, I think.

But it isn't that easy, is it? The priest has a "sugar daddy" in the Church, doesn't he? He also has several taboos to breach in his position, which makes his victims far more appealing than they'd be otherwise. To wit: he's violating their trust; he's a priest for the love of Xst; they're boys, for the love of Xst; he gets to have sexual relations with them in an ecclesiastic setting of some sort.

In addition, he can convince himself that he's giving the boy the love he (the boy) has never known, that he's some sort of (twisted) father figure, and if he's really good at self-delusion, he can convince himself that his relationship with the boy is beneficial to the boy's well-being.

I think I have a very good grasp of why priests bugger boys, thank you. In short, because they are men, and have sexual drives like everyone else. Due to the nature of their duties, they see boys a great deal and care about them. The combination of their emotions toward the boys and their natural bodily desires makes it easy for them to somehow justify their being sexual predators.

It's just a bonus that the Holy Church protects them so passionately, even when they are repeat offenders.

About God not telling them who the perverts are, well, who has proof that God actually helps people in that way?

Who has proof God even exists?

I have a problem with any sexual predator, and hold the individual accountable for his own infractions. But when the Church knows what's going on and protects the predator, I hold the Church accountable.

God has nothing to do with it.

Maybe he likes to sit back and let them make their own mistakes.

Yes. Maybe he is a sadistic bastard.

d

Pennywise the clown

["I enjoy watching the church be exposed for the fraud that it is."]

I do not enjoy watching many of the good people that are left in the church have to go through this ordeal. Especially those who were not aware of the problem or those that put trust in the clergy.

Still, I think it's a symptom of the underlying problem which runs straight back to the Vatican. I can only hope that these horrible events usher in a change for the better. Still, I'm sad to see that the instituionalized Church is more concerned with sweeping the whole mess under the rug than doing something about it in the first place.

It appears they think it's limited to the USA. Of course, near as I can tell no one in Rome seems to be too concerned with investigations.

Zar

This really isn't a fair analogy. If the Salvation Army had a long history of child abuse cases that were kept hushed and under wraps while they abused their moral authority by protecting their own and avoiding investigation while the perpetrators somehow were allowed to continue their practice under the Salvation Army essentially unscathed, then, yes, I'd consider them a fraud!

Why do people get all mushy about their moral absolutes when the church itself does something bad! How hypocritical. Let's see some fire and brimstone now, Christians!

So, sorry, the Catholic Church is a fraud! And any Christian who has ever said "God hates fags," or railed against Bill Clinton and then defends these priests are the biggest frauds of all. Only liberal, humanistic Christians who have always reached out in the past to troubled people like this are not frauds. But the Catholic Church, with its dogmas, should have known better and should have paid more attention.

But I didn't need this case to tell me that. This just makes it all the more clear to people who may not have seen it before.

[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: Zar ]</p>

MOJO-JOJO

Perhaps then, this will be what it takes for them to wake up and see the real truth, like us!