Ensign Steve

My whole family is atheist, at least as far up the totem pole as my maternal grandmother and grandfather. All 7 of my aunts & uncles were raised atheist, married atheists or agnostics (or lapsed Catholics), and myself and my countless first cousins were raised atheist.

So why did I get a godspam email from my aunt? I don't know. I may never know. I replied to the godspam with as much respect as I could muster, given that it was sent to me by an elder relative whom I love and respect. I merely pointed out the inaccuracies in the email.

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=45498

My reply was met with applause and "Hear! Hear!"s from my aunt, my grandmother, and a few people I had never met. So again I ask, why did I receive it in the first place? I have no idea.

Then today I got another piece from that same grandmother. Perhaps expecting a similar reaction from me, she prefaced the email with something along the lines of "I brought you up to respect the rights of others to believe as they choose, so if you don't like this, just delete it." I did as she wished, but not before I replied to her and respectfully requested that she not forward that type of email to me anymore. FYI: it was that one about the non-christians suing some southern school district for having a prayer at a football game (which as I understand it, never actually happened).

She replied back to me and told me a little history about her own xian upbringing and deconversion, which was an interesting bit of history I did not know about her. Then she said that she sent the email to help remind us that while we may believe (or not believe) anything we wish, we must remember the rights of others to believe as they wish.

WHEN HAVE I EVER FORGOTTEN THAT?! All I have ever done was to respond to the bullshit that was forwarded to me. I think my family has spent decades being content to sit around and "not believe" without actually having to think about it. Great for them. I believe atheism to be the default position, and I held it, quitely, up until about September of 2001, when all of the sudden the entire nation thought I was evil and/or communist, and/or anti-american for not believing in god. That's when I started to speak up. And I still have yet to actually do anything proactive, as SecularFuture would have me do. I have spent the last 1.5 years being completely reactive. And my family thinks I'm this militant anti-god, anti-christian fanatic. They think I am no less pushy of my own (non-)beliefs than the fundies who are writing the emails.

*sigh*

Jen

avalanche:ix

clearly the problem is on her side. apparantly she has the right to preach her beliefs, but you're not allowed to do the same for yours (or lack thereof). needlessly to say this is hypocritical, but i'd doubt she'd ever realize that. especially if you don't blatantly go out and tell her. people learn the hard way.

people have the right to believe what they want, and people have the right to be left alone about it rather than having lectures thrown at them which they 'can't' refute because that'd be inflicting on the 'rights' of those doing the lecturing.

can't you just bitchslap her or something?

christ-on-a-stick

Now that's a bit confusing.

Lemme get this straight... it was the religious aunt that sent you the godspam (her "sharing her beliefs" with you) - and you responded to it pointing out the inaccuracies (you sharing "your beliefs" - or lack thereof - with her). Seems kosher to me, unless communication is not supposed to be a two-way street.

And then your non- religious grandmother (who had initially praised your response to the aunt's godspam) sends you something similar, and gently reprimands you that if you get something like that and don't like it, you should just delete it???

This makes no sense to me. If someone "communicates" something to me, whether it be verbally or in writing, then I feel that I have every right to respond. Are people supposed to just go around talking AT each other as opposed to TO each other?

I agree with your grandmother that we should "respect the rights of others to believe as they choose". No problemo. However, I don't see how that translates into people having the right to share those beliefs and be protected/insulated/innoculated from hearing your response to them.

How can this be, unless you are busily *sending* emails promoting the virtues of atheism? As you said, you are simply responding to what has been sent to you.

I have told a couple members of my family (who USED to bring up Xianity with me - they are still fundies) that unless they want the dialogue to be a two-way street, don't bring it up. So far it has worked nicely.

Have you considered discussing this with your grandmother in person?

Ensign Steve

Now, that's the confusing part. All of the parties in question are atheists! My aunt, my grandmother, me. They are afraid that I think I speak for them when I tell others they are not allowed to pray in public or say bless-you when I sneeze. I don't know where they get these ideas, except they are looking at the picture painted by xians of atheists. They know that it doesn't apply to them, as they are silent in their atheism, but since I am not silent, I must be one of the "bad" atheists the emails tell them about. And my behavior is giving the "good" atheists like them a bad name.

That does not answer the question as to why they forward the godspam emails, though. I just don't get it!

Godless Sodomite

This is exactly what I have done, too. It works very well. Once it's clear that no religious assertion will be met unchallenged in conversation with me, the issue is removed from the table. I never bring up religion in conversation with anyone, but should the topic arise, I don't cow to popular consensus under the strange notion that it's impolite to disagree.

I've never received a godspam that went unchallenged. Usually a sentence or two about my atheism is enough to stop the chain letters, but I'll go on at length if I'm specifically asked to remain silent if I disagree.

-Jerry

christ-on-a-stick

Jen,

Curiouser and curiouser. Truly mysterious why your aunt would send you the godspam in the first place, other than the reasons you surmised (that they are under the false impression that any atheist who is not "silent" is being "militant").

Educate them! Why not assert yourself and explain to them, calmly and rationally, why their misconception is.. well, just that, a misconception? It doesn't have to be an argument or anything, but there's no reason you shouldn't be able to speak your mind and hopefully get them to realize that for you to speak your mind on issues that *others* bring up is not a bad thing! In fact, it's not even a bad thing for you to bring up issues on your own if you want - (being pro-active) - as long as you are willing to engage in two-way communication and not stick your fingers in your ears and go LALALALALA I-can't-hear-you!!! Since when do you not have the right to speak freely, just like anybody else?

Obviously I don't know your family dynamics but if you are comfortable with that kind of conversation I would say "go for it". Think of it as an opportunity to enlighten them

davidH

I really don't see what the big deal is here.
I'm a christian - if you get stuff you're not interested in then delete it - or read it then delete it.

It's hardly a complex issue. If you want to debate it - then go ahead, make your views known. Respect the other person's views and don't take anything personally (some people get worked up in a debate).

I also am confused.

Your aunt (an atheist) sends you this email - you reply - she applauds your reply. (So she was seeing what your reaction would be or something?)
Then your atheist grandmother sends you an email (having read your reply).
Nope - having read your post - ur grandmother was a christian and it was actually her - not your aunt as you said that sent the email in the first place.

Ok. So now I see that it was your grandmother that sent the email to you (she is a christian), she forwarded it to a lot of people (persumably people that she knew weren't christians). You then clicked "reply all" which sent your email to everyone that she had sent that email you recieved to.
Hence the reason why your aunt and people you didn't know replied applauding you.

Then your grandmother (who possibly only intended you to read it and not reply) sent you another email - reminding you to respect other people's beliefs etc (which you already knew). And asked you to delete the email next time (hence she doesn't in all likelyhood want a reply.)

But you have as much right to send her anything you want as she has to send you the emails - so write back and reply to them all you want. If she doesn't want to read them then she can just delete them.

Problem solved.

davidH

Maybe they aren't atheists - ask them =)

That's the only way you are going to clear this thing up for yourself - we can do little.

avalanche:ix

[quote] really don't see what the big deal is here.
I'm a christian[quote]

does pointing that out actually serve a point? or was it just another attempt to beat yourself on the chest?


sounds simple enough, if it weren't for the fact that he, like most skeptics that frequent boards like this, have an innate drive to ARGUE. you know, someone says something that's just blatantly wrong, that you can utterly *destroy* with a few (or a lot) simple arguments. you're *not* going to pass that up. you're *not* going to let people think they can get away with stupidity, you're *going* to prove them *wrong*.

if they're allowed to try and convince you, surely you're allowed to do the same.

AspenMama

Reminder-- this isn't a place for debating-- please leave off the personal comments, avalanche. Thanks. And david, it is a "big deal" because it is a concern that has been raised in this support forum.

----AspenMama, SL&S Moderator


Jennifer-- The only person who can answer your why question is the source. Ask your Aunt "why the spam?" Or, are you simply venting here, not really expecting to find an answer? I completely understand your frustration. Perhaps this would be a good opening to discuss the history of atheism with your family members and what led your grandparents to it, and to their seeming subordination to theistic viewpoints. Your family is unusual in having several generations of atheists. I would be interested to learn more of the history there.