Howard

The argument I use in rebuttal to this is that the likelihood of intelligent life forming naturally from non-living molecules is the same as the likelihood of a lump of coal turning into a diamond.

libertydude

Wow! Thats a lot of posts for one day! thanks for all the help, I just skimmed over them now and I'll read them all and the links too later today.

This guy lives down the hall from me, I live on campus at Jerry Falwells Liberty University and became an Atheist when I realized that my "getting saved" experience the first weekend I was here was just an emotional high that wore off and could be explained naturally. If a supernatural life changing experience can be explained better naturally, why bother?

It was a conversational debate and no one was listening but I have a friend on the debate team that could out debate him on a few points so it is possible that I could too.

copernicus

The next time you meet this fool, tell him that you have discovered the source of the argument. The "world-renowned scientist" is physicist Fred Hoyle. Another "world-renowned scientist" is biologist Richard Dawkins, who soundly refutes the argument in the book <a href="http://www.2think.org/tbw.shtml" target="_blank">The Blind Watchmaker</a>. Actually, the argument was about a Boeing 747, not a car. And Dawkins devoted his entire book to explaining exactly how the complexity of life could have come about without any "intelligent designer". In fact, the Boeing 747 does not even begin to approach the complexity of even a single-celled life form. But Hoyle's argument is essentially that the unexplained complexity of life was created by an even greater unexplained complexity, which is nonsensical. Read this book. You'll love it.

[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: copernicus ]</p>

Daggah

Oops, I seem to have misread your post Copernicus. Never mind. Sorry!

[ March 24, 2002: Message edited by: Daggah ]</p>

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by libertydude:
<strong>I live on campus at Jerry Falwells Liberty University </strong>

You have my deepest sympathy, since I once visited Oral Roberts university and cannot imagine a thinking person existing under such conditions. If your opponent ever wants to debate any other atheists, let me take him down.

Regarding the Boeing analogy, it's no analogy at all, since living creatures reproduce and planes do not. No one said evolution resulted in a eukaryotic cell forming out of simple molecules in one step, therefore the analogy falls to bits.

Kosh

Here's a fun one to try on him. I traveled to
Lynchburg a couple times last year and stayed
in Falwells hotel.

Ask him if he's aware that Jerry allows porn
movies on the in-room movie pay per view system!

libertydude

Thanks for all the replys, one thing I love about the infidels boards is all the smart people here that chime in.

I had another debate today with a good friend on my hall that was half face-to-face talking and half instant messenger, on instant messenger I took off on the ridicles and insults!! here are some highlights:

(3/28/02, 12:21 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: there was no earthly jesus, tons of evidence, including the second century apologists, support that, the "evidence" of an earthly jesus was a fable written by an anounoumous author
(3/28/02, 12:22 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: we call mark
(3/28/02, 12:22 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: I just can't believe in fairy tails, sorry

it started out innocently enough, I was telling him about what I've been reading about the second century apologists converting people to christianity without mentioning a jesus as evidence against an actual jesus, he would have nothing of it sense he "knew" he existed then he started belching out the gospel to me again like he wasn't even listening or paying attention, I replied...

? (12:29 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: what the fuck?
? (12:29 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: whatever dude, you go on believing that
? (12:30 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: one more dangerous idea to keep society seperated an at each other
? (12:31 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: don't you see the simularaties in every other religioun??
? (12:31 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: it's all bogus
? (12:31 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: nothing special
? (12:32 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: whoever the fuck you follow, theres 10 times more people following another god that make the same exact clainms
? (12:32 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: exactly, your afraid of that sadistic bastard god
? (12:33 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: I love you so much I'd kill you if you don't live up to my impossible standards in the OT or believe in my so good proof son in the NT
? (12:33 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: no good proof I mean
? (12:34 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: sonds made up by humans to me
? (12:34 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: sounds
? (12:34 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: makes absolutely no sence till you put it into the context of a barbarian society
? (12:35 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: faith is wishful thinking, not knowing
? (12:38 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: my theory is...
? (12:38 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: "God" was thought up by those in power who couldn't keep watch over all their citizens...
? (12:39 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: there wasn't enough people to keep the populatipon under control
? (12:39 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: so we have "god"watching over us
? (12:40 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: be good, and generally good things will happen to you, they added in truinsm statements liek that to keep it believable enough

and here was my favorite part...

? (12:41 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: if god wants me to be in hell, doesn't care enough to prove himself to me or the billions of other people, than than let the bastard fufill his will
? (12:41 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: fuck him
? (12:41 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: I'm not going to believe in the myth
? (12:42 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: people need proof
? (12:43 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: jesus is false, there all false
? (12:44 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: left on their own, people don't believe any any gods, it's through hering the stories of others than "wanting" to believe
? (12:45 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: thats why we se a corelation with certain countries and their own gods
? (12:45 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: or some tribes that never believed any any gods
? (12:45 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: it's all culture
? (12:48 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: there all no miracles period
? (12:49 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: made up bullshit
? (12:50 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: people imrove themselves in all kinds of religions and beliefs, nothing special about christianity
? (12:51 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: I already thought I knew him, I'm kind of glad it's all fake

that felt good to get it all out.

then the kicker!!!!

? (12:52 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: that would suck, all the eternal torment, sadistic basterd god, then the saved people in heaven praising that fuck every day
? (12:34 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: makes absolutely no sence till you put it into the context of a barbarian society
(12:33 AM) iIike2sTeaLsTuFf: I love you so much I'd kill you if you don't live up to my impossible standards in the OT or believe in my so good proof son in the NT

libertydude

Sorry about that last post of mine being so messy, but I was excited!!!

It shook him up a bit, not sure if it helped my case or not but he did concede that ridicule does shake a weak persons faith quite easily.

oh and I didn't show anything he posted cause I don't want to reveal anything that might get him upset.

[ March 27, 2002: Message edited by: libertydude ]</p>

ohwilleke

Libertydude, I feel for you. I can't imagine a less hospitable environment.

Eudaimonist

Just remember:

Fundies don't win debates.
They declare themselves the winners.