The_Gorgonzola

As a lurker, I agree. So much so that I am constructing a Word document made up of the more "interesting" posts of this thread (for personal use only ).

Gorgo

Dan828

I've been mostly lurking in this forum, and I've found the threads involving Vanderzyden to be the most informative when it comes to arguments in favor of evolution. I've enjoyed them, but all and all have been saddened by Vanderzyden himself. We have an obviously intellegent person with an entirely closed mind. He doesn't move the goalposts, the goalposts are non-existant in his arguments, and he just likes to pretend that they are there so he can keep posting. Contrary to his statements, I think it obvious that there is nothing that would ever convince him that evolution has any validity. I laud the many posters of these threads, but ultimately see discussion with him to be only benificial to the audience.

NFLP

I came into this thread with the pre-conceived notion that evolution is probably based on egg-head jargon-babble. After a several hours of reading, I feel as though I've absorbed a semester's worth of information---sorting it out is another matter. Irrespective of a designer, it suggests evolutionary theory has scientific merit.

I've noticed that the "efficacy" of scripture seems proportional to the personality of the preacher. Scigirl's approach wins my vote, if an audience poll were taken.

I agree with Dan that Vanderzyden is assuming the role of a brick. VZ lends substance to a quote I once saw scribbled on the wall of some unholy bathroom in some ungodly hall:

"Most people use their faith as a drunk uses a lampost---for support rather than enlightenment."

Daggah

Interesting assertion, but one that seems to be unsupported by the evidence at hand.

Oolon Colluphid

Hi NFLP! Glad you (like the rest of us ) are learning stuff!

<strong>it suggests evolutionary theory has scientific merit</strong>[/QUOTE]

I guess, on its own, it does "suggest" just that! The thing is though NFLP, that just about every little corner of biology is just like this example. Biologist Theodosius Dobzhansky once wrote that "Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution". This is true. It underpins all our biological understanding. And every bit of what we know verifies evolution.

Do feel free to ask any questions that occur to you. Some of us here are even real scientists! (Not me )

Cheers, Oolon

Blinn

Think he's coming back? Where will the goalpost go this time?

(Thanks to ps418 for the graemlin )

DMB

No. That is when all the fundies will crawl out of the woodwork and demand an end to these evil experiments on things that might ultimately turn into human beings!

Albion

Well, that too. But they're already dismissing lab models of speciation on the grounds that it doesn't prove (favourite creationist word, that) that it happens in the wild, so I'd expect to see the same argument brought to bear on cell creation too.

Albion

Yes, if this happens during the Bush Administration, can you imagine the response from the White House?

ps418

Unless I missed it, no one posted the following links from Talk.Origins, which address the robustness of molecular phylogenies, and the remarkable concordance of phylogenies derived from independent lines of evidence, refuting the points Vaderzyden was attempting to make with those butchered quotes (although the subject was touched on by Automaton, amongst others).

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/section1.html#independent_convergence" target="_blank">29 Evidences for Macroevolution: Convergence of independent phylogenies</a>

Be sure also to check out the author's further elaboration on these points in his response to Ashly Camp.

<a href="http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/camp.html#pred3" target="_blank">Response to Ashley Camp: Convergence of independent phylogenies</a>