Radorth

Heh. Rather a negligible difference. He says anyone who would subvert the culture is subverting our happiness, and even the efficacy of the law. Thanks for the help.

You dare to suggest he would allow crosses to be removed from cemeteries? To remove references to God from political speeches? Would he suffer inane comparisons between the religion of Bush and Osama Sin Laden? I think not. Nice embroidery job though.

Ah yes the famous line in the Treaty of Tripoli- a treaty from which this blatantly kiss-butt assertion was soon removed, never to appear in any treaty again.

Even if you tenuously assert that the government was not founded on the Christian religion, it derives it's power and longevity from Christian ideals. Jefferson was elected by Christians. The Constitution plagarizes the earlier writings of Locke and especially Hooker, and the NT concept of "willing mutual submission" is the only reason it survives today IMO. The concilitory actions and words of Grant, Sherman and their Christian Southern counterparts kept the Civil War from going on another five years, and are all the more remarkable given the death of Lincoln. One sees no such reconciliation by atheists with anyone but Christians in all of history, even a century later.

But please. Do comment on the Library of Congress' website on Religion in America, and tell us plainly how the early Congresses, Jefferson and Washington violated the Constitution.

Rad

Radorth

From an atheist website:

"Almost nine out of 10 Americans (86%) say that they believe in God, even when given the choice of saying that they 'don't believe in God, but believe in a universal spirit or higher power' (chosen by only eight percent)." Gallup adds: "In fact, only five percent of the population choose neither of these choices and thus claim a more straightforward atheist position..."

So if we wish to stop using each other's numbers for the sake of argument, the number of atheists is closer to 5% in truth. I suggest however that less than half of these are so paranoid or hard-assed as to want crosses removed from cemeteries or would consider themselves "assaulted" by crucifixes.

You want minority rule and interpretation of the Constitution, and a tiny minority you are even if it were 5%.

Rad

Rhea

Nice try.


YOU claimed we were 90% Christian. Go look.

Yellum Notnef

I really couldn't care less about reading through yet ANOTHER tedious and futile round of "how superstitious were the founding fathers".

Lets get back to how Don Mclean slipping a religious song onto one of his popular albums proves a damn thing about anything.

Biff the unclean

Rather a negligible difference. He says anyone who would subvert the culture is subverting our happiness, and even the efficacy of the law.
Which is the difference between black & white, night & day from what you claimed it said.

You dare to suggest he would allow crosses to be removed from cemeteries?
Standing crosses that get in the way of lawn mowers. The markers will still have crosses. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Ah yes the famous line in the Treaty of Tripoli- a treaty from which this blatantly kiss-butt assertion was soon removed It's still there, nobody removed it.

Even if you tenuously assert that the government was not founded on the Christian religion
There had never been a Christian Democracy, the concept came from PAGAN Greece.

the NT concept of "willing mutual submission" is the only reason it survives today IMO.
Then why are you trying to subvert it?

One sees no such reconciliation by atheists with anyone but Christians in all of history, even a century later.
Who in those days admitted that they were Atheists? Lincoln wrote a book on it in his 20's which his friends destroyed for the sake of his political career.

And by the way if you are going to write Christian with a capital "C" then please write Atheist with a capital "A"

You want minority rule and interpretation of the Constitution, and a tiny minority you are even if it were 5%.
Let me tell you how the Constitution works, I'm a naturalized American so I had to pass a test on this.
There are no religion niggers.
YOU CANNOT TAKE AWAY THE RIGHTS OF A MINORITY. No matter how large a majority you might have, if the country were 99% brain-dead-born-agains, the Constitution would still apply to you.

The irony of this is that the greatest enemies to our right of Freedom of Religion are those who are the most religious.

Llyricist

There's your comprehension trouble again. YOU said that he claimed unbelievers were NOT patriots. HE said that people shouldn't try to tear down religion WITHOUT any specific religion specified! This would apply to Secular Humanism and Islam and Buddhist and Hindu as well as Christianity! Frankly he seems to be using diplomatic language to suggest that religion is an excellent way to "keep the rabble in line.", like Biff said, Night and day...black and white.. etc...

I never suggested anything about the crosses. As for references to god.... YOU find where MADE ANY in that speech!! he did NOT mention God, Jesus, Christ, or Christian at ANY time in that speech. He mentioned religion ALOT, but NEVER any specific religion, which also seems to segue quite nicely into that original treaty of Tripoli, and the whole idea that government should be specific religion neuteral.

Radorth

LOL! Oh my, my. Everybody who thinks it's really a lawn mowing issue raise their hand.

Eh? It was removed in a later treaty with the same folks. Apparently the good senators realized they ought not to lie as well as hand out huge bribes.

A noble and short-lived experiment, which Aristotle warned would fail if "Democratic behavior" were interpreted to mean behavior such as yours IMO.

I'm just stating historical facts. If I'm subverting it, then so was Washington. If I had stated his case a little differently, you would have virtually nothing to say. I will choose slightly different wording in the future. (Very slightly different).

Ah yes, the "right" not to have to look at crosses, hear church bells, listen to a President use the word "God" or "Creator." Biff baby, I could whine all day that I am prevented from watching TV because of uncensored and crass advertising, or that the government controls what I do on my own land, forces me to support artists who put crucifixes upside down in jars of pee, (and create other gross and bigotted "art"), labels horribly violent movies PG 13, makes me get a license to kill a skunk but not a baby, forces me to watch homosexuals make out at Dodger games, etc etc.

A majority of Christians put up with these violations of their "rights" as well because they recognize they ain't in heaven yet and there is a price we all pay for freedom. You see yourself as living amongst some poor persecuted minority on a crusade against Christian oppression, but actually all you want to do is remove freedoms and the long-standing traditional rights from others.

Weathers is a perfect example of an atheist who was surprised at the lack of hate mail he got from his mislabeled and gratuitous "article." Wake up bub.

Rad

Rhea

Lot of unlicensed docs at work are there?

Legally unlicensed?

lpetrich

Even if they were fanatical fundies who believed that the Earth is flat because the Bible clearly implies that it is, it was a remarkable achievement for them to break with centuries of tradition and not have an official state church.

And if they decided on one, it would likely be the Episcopal one, the American branch of the Church of England. Which many fundies dislike.

Rhea

Get it truthful, would ya?
He was surprised that he didn't reach a segment of the population.

He made NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER about whether they represented christianity - as you are implying.