Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Laurentius · 03-26-2002, 05:02 PM

Thiaoouba
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Our lives MUST have a meaning.

Of course, they must. And mine has one too; I was wondering how other philosophy-oriented minds work.

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I'm sorry, I will keep letting people know about on these and other forums - people have got to KNOW. While there are many 'cults' and 'weirdos' in the world today, I understand why every new 'idea' or 'account of some experience' is taken to be 'bullshit'. However, intelligent people, when they read the follwing books, realise the 'intellectual' value in them.

Book1: "Thiaoouba Prophecy" - online free pdf book

Prophecies do sound suspicious to me. I mean do believe yourself to be "chosen"? Is it simple rhetoric, or real megalomania? Maybe this is what scares people away from your book. Anyway, if you think your book of maximum importance, you can launch your ideas here freely, to be discussed in the open. If you are fond of passionate arguments, I'm sure you'll enjoy the thrill.
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Laurentius · 03-26-2002, 05:17 PM

Hans
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I'm not really on the scientific side, although I enjoy science in its popularized form.

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What the documentary may or may not have explained is that the accelerating expansion of the universe of which they speak is unobserved, it is only implied.

By measuring the aparent brightness of a distant object who's intrinsic brightness is known one can deduce the distance to that object. Then by measuring the doppler shift in that object's light one can deduce the speed at which it is either moving toward or away from us. Combining these two figures gives us Hubble's Constant: X amount of speed per distance. Calculating this constant accurately has been a focus of astronomy since it was introduced. Enter the superior optics of the Hubble Space Telescope.

The Hubble's latest measurements indicate that the constant is higher than previously believed. In other words, objects at a given distance from us are moving away from us a speed greater than previously believed. How does this imply an accelerating expansion you ask?

Well, the scientists have compared explosions of supernovas taking place at different times in space, and due to the fact that two supernova explosions always happen the same, they have been able to deduce that today the Universe is expanding at a rate superior by 20 percent to that of 4 billion years ago (I think). They (not me) said that according to the new calculations the galaxies are going the disappear faster form our sight than they had expected.

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If the suggestions made by the latest calculations disturbes anyone's philosophies why not recognize them for what they are, theory based on theory. I don't see how any outcome offered by the Big Bang Theory would offer anyone any comfort.

One can either find fullfilment in the mystery that is existance and accept one's mortality, or one can find fullfilment in suggestions of immortality. To repeat something I read here earlier, the latter seems like going to the drug store and buying a prescription with the label "Plecebo" on it.

I was implying, through my questions, that faith is necessary whether or not one is religious. I for one do not use any drug at all, except music.

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Laurentius · 03-26-2002, 05:42 PM

Bill
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I can't tell you what meaning to pick for your own life. I can't force you away from nihilism. But if you view having some meaning for your life as a valuable thing, you will decide upon some task to perform; a task for which you will be remembered, even if you leave that task uncompleted when you die (as, of course, Durant necessarily did).

I'm still holding the position of Secular Humanist that I assumed when I join here. There is however this "dark" side of me, the Mr. Hyde of Nihilism, that nibbles at my heart. Many years ago, when I was a dreamful adolescent, I saw myself doing something of importance, or writing THE work, or initiating a new truthful religion - all wishful thinking of course, and not because they lacked maturity, but because of what Camus said about the absurd effort of Sisyphus. I sometimes experience the bitter irony of the great Romantics, only that I'm not one of them. Do I wish I were in their place? No, this age of straight reason and non-hypocrite atheism suits me. I'm even working, mentally rather in writing for the time being, on a personal foundation of Secular Humanism. I wish I had a sinecure so that I can work on what I like.
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[ March 26, 2002: Message edited by: Laurentius ]</p>

Bill · 03-26-2002, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Laurentius:
<strong>I wish I had a sinecure so that I can work on what I like. </strong>

Oh, don't we all!

== Bill

emphryio · 03-26-2002, 07:40 PM

Concerning the kitten:

1. There can be no good without evil.

2. Life is a never ending competition. Sometimes losing means being ashamed/less pride. But sometimes, (and more so for animals), losing means death. Dogs and cats have quite a bit of evolution based directly on ability to kill and not be killed. So as much as I love cats, (I have three), they are killing machines, (some with good snuggle capabilities), and sometimes they get killed by other killing machines.

I agree there is a lack of justice in a kitten against ten full grown dogs. There is quite a bit of injustice in general in our world. But mankind has the ability to remove all injustice. I just don't think we're trying very hard.

So anyway, it seems to me if you take away the pain, the competition, there is nothing left.
With this said, I personally literally enjoy a bit of pain on occasion. Especially if I sort of take a third person view of things. (As in taking a step back and looking at myself in comparison to the rest of the world.)

So that is the meaning in life. Competing. And then having pride in yourself at how well you tried to compete.

But ceasing to exist would make it all meaningless to me. I try to have hope that that won't be the case. Maybe science will discover immortality. Maybe by some absurdly unlikely scenario, all living creatures mind's continue to function somewhere else. I think I should go ahead and hope one of these two will happen.

But then again if I face the reality that these ideas are extremely unlikely, maybe I would then spend my every waking moment working to create the medical knowledge that would cause immortality. (And maybe I would succeed instead of just "hoping" everything will work out OK and ultimately dying.)

And my pitiful, assimilated, largely fear-based life will disappear as if it never was.

Also concerning the expanding universe. Assuming humans are around in a couple billion years. (Maybe unlikely). I think they could probably make the universe do whatever they wanted it to.

Laurentius · 03-27-2002, 04:24 AM

emphryio

There can be no good without evil.

I know there is nothing evil in the dogs' behavior. I was pointing out the non-sensical environment we deal with.

So that is the meaning in life. Competing.

How can I compete with old age?

Maybe science will discover immortality.

No, it won't. Or it will, but not for us, humans.

I think they could probably make the universe do whatever they wanted it to.

Will they? This idea has come to sound as preposterous as afterlife for me lately.
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03-26-2002, 07:40 PM	#45
emphryio Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: WV Posts: 4,369	Concerning the kitten: 1. There can be no good without evil. 2. Life is a never ending competition. Sometimes losing means being ashamed/less pride. But sometimes, (and more so for animals), losing means death. Dogs and cats have quite a bit of evolution based directly on ability to kill and not be killed. So as much as I love cats, (I have three), they are killing machines, (some with good snuggle capabilities), and sometimes they get killed by other killing machines. I agree there is a lack of justice in a kitten against ten full grown dogs. There is quite a bit of injustice in general in our world. But mankind has the ability to remove all injustice. I just don't think we're trying very hard. So anyway, it seems to me if you take away the pain, the competition, there is nothing left. With this said, I personally literally enjoy a bit of pain on occasion. Especially if I sort of take a third person view of things. (As in taking a step back and looking at myself in comparison to the rest of the world.) So that is the meaning in life. Competing. And then having pride in yourself at how well you tried to compete. But ceasing to exist would make it all meaningless to me. I try to have hope that that won't be the case. Maybe science will discover immortality. Maybe by some absurdly unlikely scenario, all living creatures mind's continue to function somewhere else. I think I should go ahead and hope one of these two will happen. But then again if I face the reality that these ideas are extremely unlikely, maybe I would then spend my every waking moment working to create the medical knowledge that would cause immortality. (And maybe I would succeed instead of just "hoping" everything will work out OK and ultimately dying.) And my pitiful, assimilated, largely fear-based life will disappear as if it never was. Also concerning the expanding universe. Assuming humans are around in a couple billion years. (Maybe unlikely). I think they could probably make the universe do whatever they wanted it to.

03-27-2002, 04:24 AM	#46
Laurentius Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Lucky Bucky, Oz Posts: 5,645	emphryio There can be no good without evil. I know there is nothing evil in the dogs' behavior. I was pointing out the non-sensical environment we deal with. So that is the meaning in life. Competing. How can I compete with old age? Maybe science will discover immortality. No, it won't. Or it will, but not for us, humans. I think they could probably make the universe do whatever they wanted it to. Will they? This idea has come to sound as preposterous as afterlife for me lately. AVE

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