Queen of Swords

Right, and by this "thinking", since Mohammed died, Islam should have died with him. So maybe he rose from the dead too.

Koyaanisqatsi

Not to mention the fact that, if viewed from a theological perspective, his suffering was nothing more and could be nothing more than a scam on an ultimate scale.

<ol type="1">[*] He's allegedly God and would know that a moment of suffering will end without question, as opposed to the rest of us who still have to deal with the terror of not actually knowing what is going to happen to us or how long we will have to suffer. Being slowly tortured to death without the absolute knowledge that it will end means that our deaths will always be more terrifying than anything Jesus could possibly have suffered.[*] Since he's God, he knows what his suffering will be long before he suffers it.[/list=a]

From a purely pragmatic perspective, if the myths were true, then we know Jesus' suffering on the cross was nothing compared to other crucifixion victims because his legs were not broken to hasten death, a regular practice apparently.

Obviously I'm going to suffer a hell of lot more than anyone else if my legs are broken in order to cause asphyxiation.

So no matter how you slice it (Man or God) no one can say Jesus suffered anything remotely comparable to what the average Joe goes through, even if you try to heap on the stupidity of Jesus' "bearing the weight of all our sins" (as I've heard tried before), since that is nothing but meaningless symbolism.

Jesus didn't actually bear all of our sins, since that's not possible. Beyond the obvious ("sins" aren't tangible objects), the theology is that he payed for our sins, so there is no way to claim he suffered from the "weight" of our sins other than in a completely meaningless, poetic sense.

Just one of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims suffered immeasurably more than did Jesus.

Godless Dave

But the details he gave about the suffering endured during crucifixion were based on his medical knowledge. The belief in resurrection was based solely on faith. Do you see the HUGE difference? I'll take his word for it on the suffering part, because he has an extensive education about how the human body works. But he gives me no reason to believe anything he says about resurrection.

Then answer me this: why didn't Islam die with Mohammed? Why didn't Buddhism die with Buddha?

A person's teachings don't die when the person dies. Christ's followers got something out of his teachings, so they kept repeating them. Some of them must have felt that they would gain more converts if they made up a story about him coming back from death. The rest, as they say, is history.

The "Christianity wouldn't exist if Christ wasn't resurrected" argument is an old one and has been discredited countless times. People are capable of believing all kinds of crazy things. Look at how many people spend money on psychics whose predictions never come true. Look how many people read their horoscopes. David Koresh still has followers, even after his death. The Heaven's Gate cult still has members, even after the founder killed himself.

Christianity still exists, even though the second coming of Christ, which was supposed to happen within a generation of his death, still hasn't happened.

Anunnaki

Stop responding to Fastfsalcon.

While I was on the toilet a few minutes ago I had a revelation of my own. I heard a little voice saying "Anunnaki and others,Fastfalcon is not reading or even thinking about anything you write. You are all wasting your time and Fastfalcon has already left your world and has cut all ties to reality".

I`m gonna listen to that little voice and do what it said.

&lt;&lt; edited because that little voice spelled my name wrong. D`oh! &gt;&gt;

[ May 17, 2002: Message edited by: Anunnaki ]</p>

Darwin's Finch

Fastfalcon, please explain: a loving and all-powerful deity could not forgive the sins of the world without this gruesome farce because...why??? True, Yahweh had a thing for blood and foreskins, but this is surely not the brightest arrangement he could have come up with, is it? Or do you also require the blood sacrifice of an alleged innocent before you are able to forgive?

What hogwash!

Godless Dave

Anyway, it could be worse. You could be stabbed.

brighid

Oh no – I am sure many of here could construct a much more painful way to die then the few hours this man suffered on the cross and then died. Any woman who has a prolonged and grueling childbirth has suffered FAR more then Christ. I sure as the hell did and believe me I envisioned a VERY long and painful scenario for the father of my child so, at least in my mind, the bastard could have felt some of the pain I did. And let me tell you, in that fantasy he would have much preferred crucifixion!

Brighid

Fastfalcon

Actually, my point is that we need to look at how much does Jesus had to suffer for us. You know, he suffered far more pain than anybody on earth, not just because of his crucifixion, but at the fact the he put all people's sins on His shoulders and He also knew who was going to perish in hell. that may be far more pain than we can imagine and you have the cheek to dismiss that!

Kosh

Have your report cards ever said anything like:

"Doesn't listen well to others"?

Ruy Lopez

from Koyaanisqatsi:

Since he's God, he knows what his suffering will be long before he suffers it.
------------

If you refer to the TYPE of godmen Osiris, Mithras and Dionysus, yes. But Christians mean the infinite immutable God of Thomism which makes it worse; the entire passion and death must be a charade because this God cannot suffer and die BY DEFINITION.