SecularFuture

Statistics on religion and atheism:
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

And yes - secularism IS growing:
(I wonder why )
http://www.secularhumanism.org/libra...kurtz_22_3.htm

Old Man

I think there is a problem with definitions here. One can be both an atheist and a theist at the same time.

One can be a practising atheist, but outwardly maintain theist opinions.

Therefore, the fact that 90% of people maintain theist opinions does not infer that socieity will change to any great extent, if 85% of those theists already behave like atheists.

Shake

Seraphim said:From Q&A #1: no, that's how theists are (in general). Following some old text because, "God says so," and their pastor, priest, etc. blindly. Most non-theists got to where they are by thinking, questioning the norm, and not blindly accepting what they are told (even by science)!

Q&A #2: Typical Xian response: atheists can't be moral! What? Like the moral pedophile priests? :banghead: Whatever!

-RRH-

I think Fiach made a good point on the moral question. I think atheists would be more anti-authoritarian, but not any less moral. But I don't think if I can argue that atheists would be more moral. Lower crime rates among atheists can be explained by the tendency to be well educated.

But any increase in crime will not be due to lower morals, but by a refusal to bow to authority. So you would need to keep an eye out for anyone who has only been kept in check because they do what their priest (or what have you) tells them to do. I don't really know how many people that would entail. (And on the plus side, we would have fewer guilt-ridden homosexuals.)

Athius

First of all as Primal said it's not possible that we're living in 90% theist world, I think you're refering to 90% theist America, that number is much lower on a global scale.

This was the mistake I made at first, you would first think that everyone would be intelligent and smart, but that's not true, the first generation maybe, but after that intelligence would't play a role anymore, because as children of the first generation are born, the atheist parents tell them from the beginning that atheism is the way, and so they wouldn't necessarily go through what we went through, to struggle their way to the truth in an environment that tells them the opposite. Atheists today must be very sure of their beliefs to stand up against a world of religion and promises of hell, etc. which means they came to their conclusions by research, logic, and having intelligence. But if the environment is atheistic from the beginning, it would just be a norm, do you understand what I'm saying? Just to give you another example, Galaleo was one of few people in his time to realize that the earth orbited around the sun and not vice versa, he was intelligent at the time, but today almost everyone knows that, does that mean everyone is intelligent? In other words people take it for granted.

To answer the original question, I think a 90% atheistic world would be only slightly better than what we have today. There would no longer be wars over religions and deaths resulting from religious superstitions, but human nature would still be the same human nature. People would still act the same way. Even today you don't see many people who take the Bible, Torah, or Quran literally in their lives, the majority of the people say they believe in god, but still violate all the rules on a daily basis, it's because they just follow their nature and what works in their lives rather than follow a set of rules made for people thousands of years before us. Uncontiously they're not that different than us atheists, and don't really live much differently.

Vespertine

I just don't think its possible because the majority of humans are not intelligent and people who are not intelligent don't think for themselves. Its sad to know that even intelligent people don't think for themselves. Hell, hardly anyone really thinks for themselves. A pity, really.

StillDreaming

more statistics:
http://www.noharmm.org/religiouspop.htm
http://www.positiveatheism.org/india/s1990c48a.htm

According to these site, the number of nonbelievers is exceeded only by the number of christians.

Seraphim

By Shake

From Q&A #1: no, that's how theists are (in general). Following some old text because, "God says so," and their pastor, priest, etc. blindly. Most non-theists got to where they are by thinking, questioning the norm, and not blindly accepting what they are told (even by science)!

My reply : Like I said before, your views are based on a simple thing - your own notions and experiences with Christianity, NOT being Theists since being a Theists is not required to follow Christianity alone. There are plenty of people out there who are theists and most of them are not Christians.

My suggestion is that you (ALL of you) open your eyes and look beyond your own prison - Christianity and see the world in a proper picture.

The Eastern societies (India, China, Japan, and all the others smaller Island states) had developed far beyond that of European nation at the same time, all because they had Religion to back them up as well. This is proof in history of Man, not something the priests could make up to support their claims. Are you denying that?

Q&A #2: Typical Xian response: atheists can't be moral! What? Like the moral pedophile priests? Whatever!

My reply : I never said anything about being moral or being a Christian either. I'm stating that in an Atheist world, there will be lack of reasons for a person to do good than in a theist world. Death alone will be enough to give a reason for a person to do things which by right is not morale because he will want to "enjoy" as much as possible before dying. And since death means dissappearing from the face of the earth and there is no afterlife, he will not bother about his actions nor its consequence.

"It is amazing what you can do ... when you don't have to look at yourself in the mirror anymore" - Kevin Bacon (as Sebastian) in Hollow Man.

Shake

I know that there are theists who aren't Xian. Give me some credit here, please. My remarks were about the differences between theists (including Xians!) and non-theists. Maybe you need to read it again.I'm no prisoner to Xianity! Haven't been for many years. I suppose you know what the "proper picture" is. Maybe you could enlighten us.

I can't deny what I don't understand. You're saying European nations didn't have religion backing them up? That's bullshit.

An atheist world could go any number of ways and it certainly doesn't have to be this lowest common denominator theory that you are pushing. I suspect an atheist world would have most of the very same secular laws in place that are around today. The blue laws would probably be gone, but it wouldn't be some lawless, anarchist-type world that you seem to think it would be. You can enjoy life very well without breaking laws or doing immoral things. Many of us atheists do that all the time. Your use of the word enjoy in the quotation marks does seem to imply that you are indeed making a moral judgement about atheists (and theists), and a broad one at that. The notion of death should be enough for us to enjoy our lives to the fullest, but we don't have to do anything immoral or illegal to enjoy life.

Let me know when your views have grown beyond the simplistic black-and-white world that you live in.

Valmorian

If this is valid, why are atheists not overly represented in prison census readings?