Jackalope

Actually, I'm going to argue that a long life expectancy is a bad thing if one is living in constant unrelieved pain. I've known a number of people over the years with very painful conditions who finally decided they simply could not face another 50, 60, or even 70 years living in constant pain. Even the ones who were religious tended to think that they were already in hell, therefore the "sin" of suicide didn't deter them.

Now, some of this is a problem with the american medical establishment. Pain is vastly undertreated here in the US. Chronic pain patients often do not have access to the medications that would make life bearable. However, that's not the whole story. Some conditions are degenerative, and often the only drugs that work at all are extremely expensive (more than $1000 a month). And even those have some hellacious side effects for some people.

So say you've got one of these diseases that are both painful and will cripple you. But it won't kill you, at least not anytime soon. How many years would it be before you cracked? Only you can decide for yourself. I don't think it's merciful in any sense to deny someone in that situation the choice of opting out quietly and painlessly. In fact, doing so might make such a person less of a burden on their dependants.

You can always hold out the hope that a new medication or treatment will come along, but sometimes the new "miracle" treatment is too late to give someone a useful and productive (or even pain-free) life. When I really was close to dying, I realized that I didn't actually want to die, I just wanted the pain to stop. And at the time, I was very much afraid that the only thing that would stop the pain was dying. The other thing that horrified me at the time (and still haunts me some days) is the prospect of living for many years as a cripple. You can always use the argument, "but things will get better." Unfortunately, it's not always true.

How merciful is it to insist that someone live for decades in a condition they find hateful?

winstonjen

It's not merciful, it's horrible and inhumane, and people that suggest that are the ones who are truly being selfish.

Jackalope

Which brings it back to the old question of, if I wouldn't let my dog suffer like this, why do most people think it's okay to make a person suffer endlessly?
At one point I told a doctor point-blank, "If I were a dog, I'd have been put down by now."

Luckily for me, I shortly thereafter found a better doctor.

winstonjen

True. Which is why I am going to the Netherlands if I ever get terminally ill. They have good palliative care and they allow euthanasia.

Shadownought

As far as ordinary suicide goes (like what our friend Droopy has done), it's sort of a tough call for me. I guess the reason is that we always hear stories just like Droopy's- some kid kills himself because his girlfriend dumped him or something.

Somehow, I find the idea of killing yourself over something like that a little more than ridiculous. It's also selfish- how will your friends and family feel? If killing yourself is a valid response to your girlfriend leaving you, what is a valid response to your son killing himself?

However, I still think that a person's life belongs to themself. Ultimately, it's their decision how long to keep it, and they have the right to end it if they see fit. In the case of euthanasia, I support the right of the patient to choose whether to continue to live or not. I can fully understand that someone would not want to live in constant pain with a debilitating disease, with no hope of recovery. But when someone overreacts and commits suicide to avoid dealing with life's common problems (Droopy), I think it's stupid and selfish, and a tragic waste of life. After all, one life is all you get.

[ December 04, 2002: Message edited by: Shadownought ]</p>

winstonjen

I agree. With the terminally ill, it is more selfish to want them to 'hang in there' than it is for them to want a merciful release.

It is far easier to wish suffering on anyone except for yourself. Watching the hypocritical pro-lifers has taught me that, if nothing else.

Jackalope

One of the pages I ran across earlier today had a section on <a href="http://www.concernedcatholics.org/suffering.htm" target="_blank">The Power of Suffering</a>. I'll note that the people who go on and on about how suffering is good for the soul are usually not the ones doing the suffering.

Since I've spent the last few days living on painkillers and muscle relaxants, the idiocy spewed forth on that page made me even angrier than usual.

[woah, my animations work now. I must've finally gotten all the permissions fixed correctly]

[ December 05, 2002: Message edited by: Jackalope ]</p>

winstonjen

I couldn't agree more with you. The words of such hypocrites are empty, and make me sick. When they have a headache, you can be sure that they'll reach for the panadol pills.

They'd legalise torture if they had their way. Just disgusting.

Davo

excreationist,

It's all about the value of life. It sounds pretty arrogant and quite frightening for me to say that we must weigh up the value of the person's life with what the person wants for themselves, as it seems very hard to evaluate life. Even so, the difficulty in judging the value of someone's life is no reason for failing to draw a line in the sand where it is clear that assisted suicide is more moral.

Therefore, if a young person is in excruciating pain that will not cease until they die, perhaps that counts as a good reason for euthanasia. There are just so many variables that need to be weighed up - the person's wishes, pain, life expectancy, chance of recovery, etc.

I suppose so. If you were faced with a highly improbable situation in which you had to choose whether to spare the life of a young person or an old person, I suppose most of us would choose the young person because the old one wouldn't have particularly long to live anyway. But that's no reason for being indifferent about suicide in the elderly.

winstonjen

Here are some quotes from <a href="http://www.lititzmagazine.com/Euthanasia.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lititzmagazine.com/Euthanasia.htm</a>

Some are just downright disgusting:

Question: Most people requesting Assisted Suicide are very old or terminally ill. What do you think of people who are young and terminally ill requesting this?

Answer: "They have a mental problem, not physical illness." - Male, 66-75, Christian