Megatron

I deconverted because I realized that something had to be wrong with religion. I too tried in vain to find some sensible connection between Hell and a God that men claim to be Love.

In the decade since, I've moved slowly from what I think would be best described as "teenage indifferent agnosticism" to militant atheism. I guess my eyes have opened further since then (I was 13 when I left the church) to see religion for the disease it truly is.

I've found more and more reasons not to believe (scientific evidence that disproves biblical statements, the actions of believers that contradict their own beliefs, and the list goes on...) without finding a single reason to support religion or believe in the supernatural.

The more I grow, in knowledge and experience, the more it all seems like childish nonsense to me.

John Page

ReasonableDoubt:

In response to my statement "For this reason I eschew logic as a placebo religion." You asked:

I'm not trying to avoid logic. I'm an atheist, I eschew logic as a placebo religion and in deference to nothing.

Why am I trying to do this? Because I think some atheists try and use logic as a replacement for (possible) gaps in their lives, they have human needs for some things religions do supply but atheism does not.

I don't know where you get the idea I'm asserting atheists "know not what they do!" On the contrary, my comment is clearly offered as an alternative to the theist-basher's attitude toward believers; its the theists that know not. In case my point is still unclear, I'm suggesting that atheists view any theist stance as one arising from ignorance and a lack of atheist enlightenment, not as an opportunity for ridicule.

Why do I think would this be excellent? Because I think atheism is about freedom of thought and this becomes difficult to promote while there is hostility toward others based solely on their beliefs.

You say you espouse "any truth over lies." Care to explain why that is? My practical experience is that lies of various degrees are an everyday part of human relations and can be beneficial.

I'd be interested in any views you have about how atheists can best avoid the pitfalls of religions while at the same time meeting their human needs for community etc.

beekay

My initial doubt stemmed from not being sure which is the "right" religion. Is a Southern baptist more "correct" than a Roman Catholic? Is a Christian more "correct" than a Muslim? "We all believe the same basic things" excuse didn't wash with me.

I totally agree with the 'creation of gods to explain the unknown' theory. I think religion started with cave men wondering about storms, birth, death, the sun ... etc. They figured some invisible beings must be doing it all and so started spirits and eventually gods. Religion evolved from there. Religion in a nutshell according to beekay

Mostly Lurking

I never had any sudden epiphany that made me become an atheist. My deconversion went something like this:

-As a child, I went to church virtually every Sunday with my parents.

-In my early to mid teens, I started casually investigating other religions simply out of curiosity. I still went to church somewhat regularly.

-In my later teens, I rarely went to church, but still identified myself as a Christian. However, from my readings about other religions, I was starting to wonder if Christianity was THE only way. Eventually, I concluded that a loving God wouldn't fry people for eternity for having sincere devotion to the "wrong" religion.

From there, I'm really not sure how exactly my deconversion took place. It was so gradual, it's hard for me to pinpoint exactly. I eventually began reading articles relevant to atheism and agnosticism, and so about 2 years ago, I decided that I couldn't lie to myself any longer by considering myself a Christian anymore by any stretch of the imagination.

So, at that point, I considered myself an agnostic. Then called myself agnostic/weak atheist. I eventually decided that was a bit too complicated and inaccurate and finally came to the conclusion that calling myself an atheist was the simplest and most accurate way to describe my belief.

This was maybe 6-8 months ago. To give you a better idea of the timeframe we're talking about here, I'm 22 now.

jj

Well, I was raised Presbyterian. I watched lots of people do the "do as I say, not as I do, except for two hours on Sunday" routine for a while. Went away to school, learned about things like DBT's, the value of eyewittnesses, etc, and simply concluded that while it might even be well-intended, except when utilized by power freaks, it was just so implausable as to be unbelievable.

I can imagine a shaman, long ago, while trying to explain to a person who just doesn't have any empathy or understanding WHY they shoudl get alone, losing patience and shouting "BECAUSE IF YOU DO NOT GET ALONG YOU WILL BE STRUCK BY LIGHTNING"... And thereby it all started.

Most religions' rules are good ways to get the tribe to survive in a nontechnical, nonagricultural, nonmedical prehistorical environment. I doubt this is coincidence.

Jayhawker Soule

Sorry. I clearly misunderstood. Perhaps a phrase such as: "I avoid using logic as a substitute for religion" might have been more clear.

You confuse atheism with the right or ability to be an atheist. Atheism benefits from freedom of thought as does Quakerism, Nazism, and numerous other 'isms'. Put differently, I defend your right to be an atheist and my step-daughter's right to be an orthodox Jew not because I'm an atheist, but because I'm a civil libertarian.

So, you are "trying to" "eschew logic as a placebo religion" because "some atheists" do not? That seems like an insufficient reason to 'eschew'.

Moving from eschew to espouse ...

As suggested in another thread, you seem to have difficulty with quotes. I believe I said: "IMO, any truth is better than a lie.". This was specifically in reference to the question posed by the thread. It was not an effort to summarize some general attitude toward truth-telling.

Nevertheless, I apologize for being so terse.

Ya got trouble, folks, right here in River City, with a capital 'T' and that rhymes with 'P' and that stands for 'Pitfalls of Religions' - sorry, I got carried away ...

Look, I feel no compelling need to stand ever vigilant against the "pitfalls of religions". I discount (or, if you prefer, eschew) the supernatural as both unsubstantiated and unnecessary -- an abiding appreciation of science, art, music, the ethics of reciprocity (e.g., the "golden rule"), and fantasy football take care of the rest.

If you'll forgive the phrase, it seems to me that you're preaching (poorly) to the choir.

John Page

Sorry for the misquote. Phrase forgiven (Golden Rule).

Although its not really my problem the 'choir' you mention seems a little discordant. I remain surprised that many around here seem to "believe" in logic (like its a god substitute). IMO this is contrary to atheism.

Good luck with the atheistic hedonism, if I may coin a phrase.

Jayhawker Soule

As phrases go, I guess I find "atheistic hedonism" catchier than "placebo religion", but I haven't a clue why you would associate such a doctrine with me -- or is this yet another Humpty Dumptyism? (By the way, is there a theistic hedonism?)

On a more serious note, I suspect much of the discord reflects a frustrated contempt for the pervasiveness of superstition, rather than the deification of logic. In my case at least, it's not dissimilar to the anger and frustration I feel when confronted with a world still characterized by nationalism and race hatred. Trust me, the tears of frustration have very little to do with hedonism, atheistic or otherwise. Take care ...

General Zod

1. Bad things happen.
2. God has power over everything.
3. If God wanted to stop bad things from happening, He would.
4. Therefore God wants bad things to happen.
5. Therefore God is an evil ass.
6. The Christian God is not an evil ass (here's where my logic faltered . He isn't SUPPOSED to be an ass, anyway)
7. Therefore, the Christian God contradicts reality.
8. Therefore, the Christian God does not exist.

David Bowden

Why, of course! Theists practice epistemological hedonism - they believe in God because it basically feels good.

...there being, apparently, no other good reason.

-Wanderer