Starboy

I disagree; the suppression of unholy science, or law or social practice is a fundie characteristic.

Starboy

Opera Nut

Fundies are louder than other Christians; they love to get in peoples' faces and tell 'em they're goin to hell. That's why there seem to be more of 'em around here in the capital punishment city capital of the capital punishment state of the capital punishment country.

Houston-->Texas--->USA

I don't feel any safer.

blackhawk

Wow by many of y'alls views of what a fundaentalist is and is not I am one. i am definitely not one though. i think the term fundamentalist has lost much of its meaning. Many definitions would include conservate evangelicals who were created in opposition to fundamentalism.

Here are some quotes that might help in determining a true def. of fundamentalism.

"Fundamentalism is orthodoxy confronted with modernism."

quote from James Hunter in
Evangelicalism and the future of Christianity by Alister E. Mc Grath p 29

"A siege mentality became characeristic of the movement; fundamentalists communities viewed themselves a walled cities, circles of wagons, defending their distinctives against an unbelieving culture. "Oppostionalism," ... became a leading characteristic of a fundamentalist mentalite"

Alister E. Mc Grath
Evangelicalism and the future of Christianity p 30

The same book also points out the fundamentalism is a perfect representation of Niehbur's Christ against Culture form of dealing with soceity. Basically this view is that true Chrstians and true Christianity is against the culture and one should fight against it. Basically instead of working from inside culture (as in Neihbur's Christ with culture) one should seperate from it.

I hope this helps.

Starboy

As a scientist I take an operational view. A fundie is as a fundie does. If a person uses holy writings or holy revelation to support or oppose public or government policy or law that affects all of us then that person is a fundie.

Essentially it boils down to what do you use to inform yourself about reality. If you use holy writings with no basis in reality then you are a fundie. There are a lot of fundies in this country.

Starboy

Rhea

RBAC - I did not mention germany or hitler. SO you have left my concerns unanswered.

I will remain unconvinced that you have any real appreciation for what is going on in this country, since you didn't even know whteher the pledge (Under God) is said in schools every day and children are suffering for not embracing that. And since you did not have any understanding of how these "petty problems: affect the ability of an atheist to have the same opportunities. E.g. since our pledge says that, no Atheist can get elected in my town without LYING because the public will watch whether they recite it at town meeting.


But you don't know any of that is happening, and you pooh-pooh the experiences of those who are actually witnessing it.

So again, forgive me if I don't see you as a reliable judge of discriminatory practices. I believe your head is in the sand. Your world is hunky-dorey and therefore everyone's is. I disagree with your assessment.

blackhawk

Then aren't almost all religious people then fundies? Except that I as a Christian disagree that the Bible has no basisin reality. But I am pretty sure you do.

Starboy

Bingo! What would you say about any group of people that used unsubstantiated holy writings of any kind to direct public policy? That they were wacko! Calling them fundies is being polite. What you don't see is that your holy writings are no better than anyone elses.

Starboy

Starboy

Also I think you misunderstand me. The bible is real. There are many references in the bible that are real. I do not contest that, but then again this is something the bible shares with just about every other religious writing in the history of mankind. There is nothing special about that. What the bible does contain are statements that are interpreted to be about reality. Most of these are flat out wrong. The rest cannot be substantiated and in the case of Christianity, the basis supernatural event can very easily be explained naturally. In other words Christians have buttkiss. Now if you want to believe in it that is fine, but when you have to be responsible have the good sense to realize that any decision based on an understanding gained from the bible is without basis. This may have been peachy keen in the first century but we have come to expect a great deal more in the twenty-first century.

Starboy

Radorth

Re: Rhea and the truth about Christian activism

No it was the Quakers, Methodists, Beecher, and Charles Finney, with some belated help from the government. And of course it was a "fundy" college, Oberlin, which graduated a black female long before Harvard thought of it.

No it was Christians. Any atheists known to have joined in King's marches, BTW?

No but Finney did far more than the noisy Ingersoll to make it happen.

Like BAC said, don't underestimate the wisdom or will of the American people. They've elected few "fundy" presidents, and I myself voted for Clinton. While I assert that this country is blessed by God for facilitaing the preaching of the Gospel, I also assert he and 90% of Americans are quite happy keeping church and state out of each other's affairs whatever their reasons. After all, Jefferson insisted soldiers attend Christian services, and attended them in the Congess.

You've come a long way baby.

I'm still quite sure "Rational BAC" is apt in his case, albeit unusual.

Rad

Rational BAC

Rhea------

Sorry about that. Somebody brought up postwar WW! Germany in that very famous quote that was stated. ( Probably was Pyrrho. )

And as long as we are saying we are sorry for mixing things up.------------A lot of what you stated that I said about the Pledge --I didn't say. Somebody did for sure, because I remember it, but wasn't me---at least in the way you put it. If you look back I think you will find you are mixing me up with a different poster.

(------There was a rather long thread about "under God" in the Pledge (that I believe got transferred out)-----)

I gave my experiences in saying the pledge quite honestly in that thread------------ ---

====(basically mumble city, also learning the pledge the old way so never really could say it with "under God" in it anyway so never put it in, replacing "indivisible" with "divisible", adding "and equality for all", dropping the "to the flag" part------------that was all me and my posts)

Of course I don't really know for sure what the experiences of todays people are in that matter.

I just gave my experiences and the impression of my generation-----------which equals mumble city, nobody took it seriously anyway, if anything we all made fun of the whole thing.

And I do think that--give it 10 years or so-- kids will go back to mumbling the pledge and making fun of it------------just like in the past.

And that is why I think the "Pledge controversy" is overstated and overly worried about still today.-----------On that part you have me right on the money.