DrJim

From a newbie:
Sorry if this is a long post, I'm maybe a little over-enthusiastic...

I think the reference to Pagels book is fitting, but I think she makes a little too much of Christian demonization of Jews: pre-Christian centuries had lots of devils of various names and descriptions. Of course, HaSaTaN, the adversary from what are now the Hebrew Bible (OT) texts was assimilated to these growing concepts, as was the serpent in the Garden of Eden story. Many of the apocryphal apocalyptic texts seem to betray a sectarianism within Judaism in which enemies of the perceived 'faithful' called the followers of a fallen angel or somthing like that. The 'War Scroll' from Qumran and other Dead Sea Scrolls do so too. Early Christianity grew out of this hysteria about the end of the world and the evil cosmic master who has (temporary) control of it. Christianity never de-emphasized the apocalypse to the same extent that the strands of Judaism that developed into Rabbinic Judaism did: and to this day.


At least some of the antecedents to the pre-Christian Jewish 'satan-fears' are to be found, of course, in the dualism of early Zoroastrianism, although the early history of THAT religion is highly debated for want of evidence. How much impact it had on early Judaism is also debated.
Another MAJOR source of ideas which fed the (evil) Satan beliefs was the well-attested 'Combat Mythology' of the Ancient Near East, where creation is ordered by a deity defeating challengers to his sovereignty. An excellent discussion of this can be found in Neil Forsyth, The Old Enemy: Satan and the Combat Myth (Princeton UP, 1987). It is to be found in a number of prophetic books and some Psalms.

Job is important for 'Satan' ideas in the Hebrew Bible, but also look at Zechariah 3: here Satan is in YHWH's cosmic throne room and rebuked for alleging the High Priest Joshua is impure and so disqualified. Most striking is the relationship between 2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21. Chronicles rewrites the earlier Samuel story about David offending God by taking a census. My translations:

2 Sam. 24:1 "And again the anger of YHWH burned against Israel and he inticed David against them, saying, "Go, number Israel and Judah."

1 Chron 21:1 "And Satan rose up against Israel and he inticed David to number Israel."

In the re-write, the problematic ambivalence of God is solved: by the time this scribe worked, there was enough of a sense of a cosmic enemy of God still active in the world (as opposed to defeated in the primordial period), that changing the story to reflect a dualism and to save God's reputation was the preferred option. And the Chronicles, which is probably one of the last books of the Hebrew Bible to be written is the only book in the collection in which Satan entices people to sin. Beleifs had changes: he when from being thought of as a mysterious presence in God's enourage to an enemy of God. The beliefs continued to develop in the subsequent centuries.


Hope this long post hasn't been too tedious.

Vinnie

Dr.Jim has a PhD in Hebrew and Old Testament and is a Professor of Religious Studies according to his profile. It feels like there is a celebrity posting here

Your post wasn't tedious and welcome to the forum

Vinnie

CX

Not all. It was quite refreshing, actually. I had some similar complaints about Pagels book. I also felt that contrary to the title she didn't delve deeply enough into the Satan character in popular Xian mythology. In any event, excellent post and welcome.

Muffinstuffer

Naah, I don't worry about it. After all, we Christians don't think, by virtue of the fact that we're Christian, so I don't think about it.

Apikorus

My recollection of Pagels is that she asserts that the earliest Yahwistic notions of Satan were not of the thoroughly evil, immensely powerful, quasi-eternal enemy of God who lures humans into sin -- the familiar Christian image -- but rather of a divinely sent messenger who frustrates the plans of men, in some cases that they might not sin. In support of this thesis she invokes the reference to satan in the Balaam pericope, which is generally believed to be Elohistic and hence representative of an early stage of Yahwism. After Judaism's encounter in Babylon with Zoroastrian dualism, the argument goes, the Israelites' concept of satan underwent a radical change. (Zoroastrian theology holds that there is one supreme, eternal God, Ahura Mazda, whose holy spirit, Spenta Mainyu, is engaged in an eternal conflict with a diabolical adversary, the Anghra Mainyu.) Basically, satan became Satan. Compare the concept of satan in the preexilic literature with that in Job. (The provenance of Job is quite uncertain, as I expect DrJim would concur. The core story may have been quite old, but the term hasatan appears only in chapters 1 and 2, which may well be of Persian or even Hellenistic provenance.)

I concur with the insightful comments of DrJim. I'd add the following perspective, though. As CX properly notes, in Num 22:22a the term satan is not a proper name, but rather a noun meaning "opponent" or "adversary". (NB: Aryeh Kaplan renders l'satan lo with the infinitive, "to oppose him".) It also functions as a noun in other preexilic sources: 1 Sam 29:4, 2 Sam 19:23 (RSV 19:22), 1 Kings 11:14, 11:23, and 11:25. In each of these instances, the satan is a human adversary, usually of Israel (e.g. Hadad and Rezon; in 1 Sam 29:4 the Philistines fear that David will prove to be a satan to them). In 1 and 2 Sam, the usage is the same as in Num 22:22a - l'satan = "to oppose/to be an adversary". In 1 Kings 11, there is no preceding lamed, but it is nonetheless clear that the term does not function as a proper name (e.g. 11:23 vayakem elohim lo satan et rezon ben elyada = "and God conjured up an (other) adversary, Rezon son of Eliada," so satan here is identified with Rezon.) In all these instances, the term seems to have little theological content.

In Job (and Zechariah) the term appears with the definite article: hasatan. Although by the time Job 1-2 was written the character of the satan was more fully developed, note that in Job 1-2, the satan is Job's adversary, not YHWH's. (And in Zech 3, the satan's job is l'sitno - "to oppose him (Joshua).") Indeed, according to Job 1:12 and 2:6 it is YHWH who gives the satan the power to confound Job, as part of some perverse test of Job's character.

Evidence of Yahwistic-Zoroastrian syncretism is sometimes adduced from the use of the term elohei haShemayim (the "God of heaven") in Ezra, Nehemiah, and Daniel (as well as one appearance each in Genesis, Psalms, and 2 Chronicles); Ahura Mazda was a sky God. But the lateness of these sources suggests that the Zoroastrian influence was subtle and accrued slowly. In this regard it is worth emphasizing that elohei haShemayim does not appear in early postexilic writings such as Haggai and Zechariah 1-8 (ca. 520 BCE), nor in Malachi (ca. 500 BCE). Furthermore, its appearance in Daniel is confined to chapter 2, supporting a Persian dating for this chapter. The term is also absent from Daniel 7-12, which is widely accepted to be of Hellenistic provenance (ca. 165 BCE). Glimpses of what would become the Christian Satan (which must in large measure be viewed sui generis) first appear in late 2nd Temple Jewish literature such as the pseudepigrapha.

Roland

Along the same lines, we only have the New Testament which was written by those who believed Jesus rose from the dead. How about those living at the time who WEREN'T convinced? What made them doubt? (Even Matthew lets it slip that some of Jesus' very own disciples did not believe when they saw Jesus on the mountain in Galilee). It would be nice to be able to hear from the skeptics for a change.

necromancer

Thanx all for the great amount and quality of the replies I got!

"Apparently Satan publishes by pseudonyms, such as R. Dawkins or J.K. Rowling. "

LOL

Craig, indeed many former JW's took the same road. I think that once you realised how you have been deceived, you start from scratch and basically doubt anything. Using research as a tool results in the vortex ending in atheism. However not all JW's do this, some just substitute one belief with another....which is sad, really. For me reading Genesis was basically enough to wreck my faith: absurdities, conflicts, boy it has it all! What helped me too was my biology study at university...first learning to think critically and observing real evidence for evolution...hah! best time I ever had!

You guys have given me alot to chew on...thanx!

:notworthy

Necro

CX

Most early critisism of Xianity has not survived. For a pagan perspective I recommend reading Celsus (excerpted in Origen's apologetic Contra Celsum ("Against Celsus"). For a Jewish perspective there are any number of Jewish antievangelistic websites that will give you an idea of their position. (Outreach Judaism, Jew for Judaism and others).

Apikorus

Jewish "anti-missionaries" are typically as tendentious in their attempts at scholarly discourse as are evangelical Christians. Best to stay away from both wacky worlds and dig into more dispassionate modern scholarship, if your goal is a nuanced understanding of the Hebrew Bible.

CX

But that's so much work!