agapeo

Originally posted by agapeo:
Ahh, dear ole mom! Where would we be without them?
Could ya spare a buck or two?
Ok! I'll try to be a little serious now. I don't know you or your mother so I can't speak to how much of an influence she has had on you. But it's obvious that it must have been much since you used her as an example (and I can respect those who have respect for their parents). So . . . how much influence did/does the doctrines and beliefs of Catholocism have on your mother? Do those beliefs influence her in the way that she interracts with others? I know you stated that encouragement and support she showed towards you had little to do with her religion, but what about her beliefs? I'm just trying to understand from your perspective how one can separate the way they act towards others with what one believes.

Ojuice5001

Why should atheists respect religious beliefs? Because "I am a man, and nothing human is alien to me," as Terence the Roman put it. The majority may not always be right, but it usually deserves to have its feelings and point of view understood and considered. Otherwise, you risk being the kind of ivory-tower aristocrats that Christians think you are. And frankly, I think a lot of posts on this board show a lack of ability to identify with the theistic mindset--they seem to think theism is fundamentally based on something like gullibility, wishful thinking, or poor reasoning. Although religious thinking often contains these elements, I think its essence is something else--a tendency to see a kind of purposes and connections that could only be put there by supernaturalism. I suspect that it's no one's fault, that there is a fundamental difference between the convinced religious and the convinced secular. But the question was whether and why atheists should respect religous belief, and I say that this is a good reason why they should.

[ November 09, 2002: Message edited by: Ojuice5001 ]</p>

The Other Michael

I'm unclear on this. If there is no evidence for supernaturalism, then how is religious thinking having as its essence "something based on supernaturalism" going to be distinguished from "gullibility, wishful thinking or poor reasoning"?

cheers,
Michael

Living Dead Chipmunk

Sounds like a good goal.

Now if we could just get EVERYONE ELSE, including pagans, atheists, and republicans to realize that theirs is not the only interpretation of reality, we can have a utopia society without haveing to send *anyone* to the reeducation camps!

Christians don't have a copyright on arrogant self-righteous "I know what's best for everyone"ism.

Ojuice5001

Well, I tend to think that theism is based on intuition. Which may not be perfectly rational, but it is not irrational in the same sense as gullibility, wishful thinking, and poor reasoning. IMO, at least.

Starboy

Ojuice5001: sounds like you suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. The reason we have a constitution is not to protect the rights of the majority but to protect the rights of the minority. The majority can take care of itself. Next time you hear a news report about another Christian victory that flaunts the constition tell yourself, oh yes I should respect the majority, cause well gee they are the majority.

Starboy

Goliath

agapeo,

Some of the reasons why I respect him include:

1. He is a great teacher (the best teacher I've ever known, to tell the truth).

2. He is an extremely intelligent man.

3. And also because I find his research area to be very interesting.

Note that none of these three reasons have anything whatsoever to do with his religious belief.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Queen of Swords

Let's see... those beliefs made her take me to church every Sunday, and those beliefs were at least partially responsible for holding my parents' marriage together. My mother was nothing like Gemma Therese, fortunately, but when I'd come home unhappy because once again, the teachers showed favoritism to someone else instead of me, she'd say, "On Judgement Day, you'll both be equal". I finally get to vent about how very frustrating that was. Ooh. All I have to do is wait about seventy years or so, then die, and justice will be done!

I don't think that I would get along very well with the ultra-religious kind of person who works their beliefs into every aspect of daily life. I mean, I see this on the Nutwatch all the time. "I shouldn't wear pants because God says that's an abomination." "I just saw a shadow - it must have been a demon." I find that kind of thing ridiculous, and it's all the more annoying if the person in question tries to convert me to their point of view.

However, my best friend is a Sunni Muslim; she prays five times a day and so on, but even before she knew my views, she never brought up religion or tried to convert me. To me, that's showing respect for my right to have a viewpoint different from hers, and I'm more than happy to return that in spades. If we went to a restaurant together, I'd be sure to pick one that served halal meat, because that shows respect for her lifestyle - a respect she has earned. Her beliefs have not earned it, but she has.

I don't know if that's answered your question(s) - let me know.

Gurdur

ROFL !
I prefer sex with others in my bed to single rampant hysteria.

And all this sounds so much like the American fundy Christians who see demons under every bed and an approaching Apocalypse.....


Heh, heh, Hugo, I know, I know.
However, sometimes it's entertaining.

Rubbish. I stated there is often no difference for the belief-holder in question.
Do try to understand the difference.

And complete nonsense.
My statement (go back and read it carefully) would be true if only one example existed .... and you yourself admit that below, so just what do you think you've proven ?

Tsk, you agree with my statement - as further explained - but you claimed beforehand to have disproven it. Contradiction !

So the big what, "Not necessarily" ???

I pointed out something is often true.
Then you claim it isn't, then you backtrack and admit it is sometimes true, but you try to quibble by saying that it sometimes isn't true.

In other words, my statement was fully correct.

Do you enjoy misrepresenting people and arguments ?

And I'll go further:

Just why, in Darwin's name, are so many American and Canadian atheists so addicted to sectarian, demonizational, blindly over-generalizing, and frankly hysterical views ?

My atheism is for me a source of happiness and strength.
I do not need to constantly put others down, such as theists, to build up my own ego.
I do not need to build up little persecution fantasies to fill my days.

I am an atheist, very much publically an atheist, and I have friends who are believers, half-believers, non-believers, and don't-cares.
And I get along with my friends by respecting their beliefs halfway in front of them, even while I'm disagreeing with them openly.

I do not need to spend my time disproving the Bible or other Christian contradictions; for me that's a very long-dead issue.
I do not need to show fear where no fear is warranted.

Just call me The Happy Atheist.

[ November 10, 2002: Message edited by: Gurdur ]</p>

Starboy

Good for you! Where do you live?