Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corwin · 03-08-2002, 02:18 PM

I've given you an answer, and that IS an expression of energy. You want it in watts? I want to know what my paycheck is in Euros. You want it? You convert it.

Corwin · 03-08-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
Corwin:

Nothing. The potential energy has been lost, converted into other forms by known mechanisms. Contrast that with your case, where no energy appears to be lost and there is no mechanism!

Except for gravity pumping energy into the system and some of the energy radiating off as heat?
Selective visual acuity is fun, no?

tronvillain · 03-08-2002, 02:23 PM

Corwin:

Quote:

Here's the basic point... and one you're missing. All of that matter? Is in fact accelerating toward the center of the earth. The fact that it's prevented from actually REACHING the center means nothing. The accleration is still there, the force (from gravity) is still being applied, the energy is still being added.

Again, the bold text is where you descend into madness. You are apparently incapable of giving a valid explanation of this energy that supposedly being added.

Quote:

Given ENOUGH force and matter, the entire structure will collapse in on itself. Ever heard of a black hole? Guess what? Same idea. As a star, it had enough matter to actually have enough gravitational force to reach the 'critical mass' (not in the atomic reaction sense, but the term fits...) for its structure to collapse. Planets? Don't have that much mass, and therefore don't have that much force. They DO however, have some... again, all that energy has to go SOMEWHERE. It can't just sit there, or it would steadily increase over time until all energy in the universe was concentrated in a few points. You're all failing to factor in the effects of a universal force (gravity) on a local environment. (the earth.)

You continue to attempt to slip that premise in somewhere people won't notice. Now, what is the problem with all energy eventually being concentrated in a few points? Nothing.

NOGO · 03-08-2002, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corwin:
Acceleration of gravity is still 9.8 m/s^2.
Doesn't matter if you're resisting it or being blocked or not, that acceleration is still there.

Yes it does matter. The 9.8 * the mass is the force exerted on the rock by the earth. If the rock does not move it is because of an opposing force which neutralizes the earth's gravitational force.

The net effect is that the addition of the two forces is zero. So the rock does not move because it feels zero force. WIth zero force there is zero movement, zero acceleration and zero velocity. Therefore there is zero kinetic energy.

The only energy a rock on the table has is potential. The potential energy is due to the location of the rock and it does not go anywhere as long as the rock remains where it is.

Deimos · 03-08-2002, 02:24 PM

Corwin, quit stalling and give us an answer. Surely you want to put us all in our place. The opportunity presents itself....

Corwin · 03-08-2002, 02:26 PM

Quote:

You continue to attempt to slip that premise in somewhere people won't notice. Now, what is the problem with all energy eventually being concentrated in a few points? Nothing.

Actually no, I counted on people seeing it.
What's wrong with it? Nothing.... except that we don't see it happening... we see energy and matter both distributed fairly evenly through the observable universe.
Guess what? Gravity exists.... everywhere. Get over it.

tronvillain · 03-08-2002, 02:28 PM

Corwin:

Quote:

Syn.... second law is irrelevant.

As we constantly tell creationists... the first part of the second law is 'In a closed system,' which the earth is not.

We tell them that because the earth recieves energy from the sun, and thus is obviously not a closed system.

Quote:

Welcome to the joys of an open system.

Energy enters this system in the form of gravity. (Gravity itself may not be energy, but it's what gives the rock its potential energy.)
It leaves it in the form of heat. (The earth doesn't keep all its heat... it does radiate some off.)

This is where your theory becomes magical - there are mechanisms behind the energy the earth recieves from the sun. This magical gravity energy is a figment of your imagination.

Corwin · 03-08-2002, 02:30 PM

Quote:

This is where your theory becomes magical - there are mechanisms behind the energy the earth recieves from the sun. This magical gravity energy is a figment of your imagination.

You're bullshitting me right?

Gravity is a figment of my imagination?

And you people say I don't know what I'm talking about?

NOGO · 03-08-2002, 02:34 PM

Try answering my last post Corwin.

Deimos · 03-08-2002, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Corwin:
 <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

You're bullshitting me right?

Gravity is a figment of my imagination?

And you people say I don't know what I'm talking about?

No, the gravitational field transfering energy to stationary objects through the Corwin Mechanism is a figment of your imagination.

Corwin, do you know how to define gravitational potential energy from 'first principles'? Do you understand the concept of a conservative field?

Just curious....

[ March 08, 2002: Message edited by: Deimos ]

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03-08-2002, 02:18 PM	#111
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	I've given you an answer, and that IS an expression of energy. You want it in watts? I want to know what my paycheck is in Euros. You want it? You convert it.

03-08-2002, 02:24 PM	#115
Deimos Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Posts: 97	Corwin, quit stalling and give us an answer. Surely you want to put us all in our place. The opportunity presents itself....

03-08-2002, 02:34 PM	#119
NOGO Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Canada Posts: 1,562	Try answering my last post Corwin.

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