CuriosityKills

What makes you think that is his approach to Zen?

That wasn't the impression I got at all. In fact, I feel that he is teaching quite the opposite.

Stupidity is universal, no need to try and divide it into eastern and western hemispheres.

Fortunately enlightenment is universal as well.

monkey mind

The above post was from me. I apologize. My GF's login was active on the computer.

Seraphim

"What makes you think that is his approach to Zen?

That wasn't the impression I got at all. In fact, I feel that he is teaching quite the opposite. "

My reply : O_o ...
I will give you the qoute where Brad "teaches" about Zen.

"I made this page because nearly everything written about Zen is trash. It's too easy to imitate Zen Master talk. String together a few quotes from Star Wars' Yoda, David Carridine in Kung Fu and Chinese fortune cookies and you can fool 90% of the people who hang out in Zen chat rooms. Mix in a few pastel colored drawings of sakura blossoms in bloom and presto, you've got your own Zen website!"

- From <a href="http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/index.html" target="_blank">http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/index.html</a>
The last paragraph, above "This is my alternative". I suggest you read and re-read again to understand what it says.

"Stupidity is universal, no need to try and divide it into eastern and western hemispheres. "

My reply : There is a need to divide it, do you know why? Because westerners attend to insult principles which Easterners cherish for ages simply because they have no patience to learn it properly.
I'm a Easterner - yet, I don't insult your way of life in US or Europe or anywhere because I don't know about it, is it fair for you to come to my home (as in my country or any Eastern country) to so-call "learn" something only to have no patience and leave halfway to insult it later?

"Fortunately enlightenment is universal as well."

My reply : It will be something to see whether you can achieve enlightenment without proper understanding the way.

"The above post was from me. I apologize. My GF's login was active on the computer. "

My reply : You lost me ... mind explaining?

monkey mind

</strong>

I didn't think the paragraph you quoted here is a teaching at all. I thought he was simply explaining his reasoning for making a Zen web page.

</strong>

When I read this paragraph, I took it to mean that he was disatisfied with many western 'teachers' who pick up eastern sayings, but don't have any real understanding of Zen.

</strong>

I've read it a couple of times now. I don't think he is insulting eastern people at all in this paragraph.

I think there may be a bit of a language problem here.

</strong>

Do you feel that westerners don't have the patience to learn Buddhism?

</strong>

I'm sorry you feel this way Seraphim, but I think you are misunderstanding.

Do you think that this Brad only learned Zen halfway, then left and is now insulting it? Seraphim, you are mistaken. This is the first paragraph on the page.

See here he explains that he has studied Zen for over 20 years. He also lives in Japan and studies under Gudo Wafu Nishijima. This teacher has given him the Dharma Transmission.

Also, he says that he doesn't think there is a such things as a Zen "Master" because Zen is a lifelong practice, no one masters it.

Here, on the second line of the page you can see that he lectures on Buddhism in Tokyo and Chiba, so he has not left the east at all.

Certainly, his style of teaching isn't for everyone, and I don't think you should be forced to read it if you don't like it. However, it saddens me that there seems to be such a misunderstanding here and that you seem to have a negative view of western Buddhists. I know I cannot change your view online, as you can only see my words here and not my actions.

</strong>

My Sifu is from Taiwan. Will he be able to give me a proper understanding of the way?

</strong>

I do not mind explaining at all. You may notice that my last reply to you was under the nick name 'CuriosityKills'. This is the nick name my girlfriend uses on this message board. I accidently replied to you under that nickname, then realized my mistake. I logged out of her nickname and logged into mine to post a message and let you know that the message was actually from me.

Seraphim

"I didn't think the paragraph you quoted here is a teaching at all. I thought he was simply explaining his reasoning for making a Zen web page. "

My reply : When I said "teaches" I meant as sacrasm ... (should have put the comment next time, my mistake).

"I made this page because nearly everything written about Zen is trash. It's too easy to imitate Zen Master talk. String together a few quotes from Star Wars' Yoda, David Carridine in Kung Fu and Chinese fortune cookies and you can fool 90% of the people who hang out in Zen chat rooms. Mix in a few pastel colored drawings of sakura blossoms in bloom and presto, you've got your own Zen website!"

"When I read this paragraph, I took it to mean that he was disatisfied with many western 'teachers' who pick up eastern sayings, but don't have any real understanding of Zen."

My reply : And WHAT made him such a authority in Zen Buddhism? His language is confusing and insulting others easily, I take it that he was insulting Zen Buddhism by the way he was referring to most books been written now is trash. IF he know about Zen Buddhism (or anything about Buddhism and why it is considered as teaching and not religion), then he should know that a person's understanding comes from his own, not something his teacher taught.
In that context, nothing is trash other than pure insults. His attention (IF to defend Zen) end up as an insult to Zen more than those "trash" he was referring to. In the end, he throw trash at other trash as well. Ever hear of the saying "Kettle calling the pot"?

"I've read it a couple of times now. I don't think he is insulting eastern people at all in this paragraph.
I think there may be a bit of a language problem here. "

My reply : I thought he was insulting Zen Buddhism. Yes, there is a language problem here where I'm not very sure if our "friend" Brad here is insulting Zen or not.

"Do you feel that westerners don't have the patience to learn Buddhism?"

My reply : Yes, my personal thought is that Westerners have no patience to learn anything properly (especially if it comes with principles and live long practise such as Buddhism and Zen).

"I'm sorry you feel this way Seraphim, but I think you are misunderstanding."

My reply : Nope, no misunderstanding here. This is how I feel. Westerners got too used to having everything analyzed to details and having instant things, they are not used to having life long commitment which not only extend in this life but also the next.

"Do you think that this Brad only learned Zen halfway, then left and is now insulting it? Seraphim, you are mistaken. This is the first paragraph on the page.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My name is Brad. I'm 38 and I live in Tokyo. My lineage is Soto, the sect brought to Japan by Dogen in the 13th century. My teacher is Gudo Wafu Nishijima. He originally studied under Kodo Sawaki, Taisen Deshimaru's teacher. I began studying Zen in the early 1980s in Ohio under Tim McCarthy whose teacher was Kobun Chino who was brought to America by Shunryu Suzuki, author of Zen Mind Beginner's Mind. "Zen Master" is a ridiculous and meaningless term. No one masters Zen. But it's widely used to refer to someone who has taken Shiho or "Dharma Transmission" in a recognized Zen lineage, as I have. So if there is such a thing as a Zen Master (and there isn't), I am one (and I'm not).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

See here he explains that he has studied Zen for over 20 years. He also lives in Japan and studies under Gudo Wafu Nishijima. This teacher has given him the Dharma Transmission. "

My reply : He learn Zen for 20 years and he can insult others by calling their books (which is also potray their understanding) as trash?
Tell your friend, Brad to live another 20 years and study more.

"Also, he says that he doesn't think there is a such things as a Zen "Master" because Zen is a lifelong practice, no one masters it. "

My reply : No idea what he meant by no one can master it. Zen Buddhism is linked closely to Samurais and their code of Bushido. Unless your friend is a swordsman and follow Zanshin properly, then only he could understand what it is consider to be a "master".
You master your own destiny, that is Zen Buddhism (and Buddhism in general) is all about. Take your life onto your own hand and do what is necessary.

"EEKLY LECTURES IN TOKYO AND CHIBA --
Click HERE for details

Here, on the second line of the page you can see that he lectures on Buddhism in Tokyo and Chiba, so he has not left the east at all."

My reply : You forgot to paste the link ...

"My Sifu is from Taiwan. Will he be able to give me a proper understanding of the way?"

My reply : Gautama Buddha could come down and be your teacher for what it's worth, will that give YOU a proper understanding? No matter who teaches, the question is - do you have the patience to learn?

"I do not mind explaining at all. You may notice that my last reply to you was under the nick name 'CuriosityKills'. This is the nick name my girlfriend uses on this message board. I accidently replied to you under that nickname, then realized my mistake. I logged out of her nickname and logged into mine to post a message and let you know that the message was actually from me. "

My reply : OK ... so your GF have something against Zen or what?

monkey mind

</strong>

Did you read any of the articles on the site? A lot of what you are saying to me here is very similar to what he says in the artcles on his site.

</strong>

Well, he receieved Dharma Transmission from his sensei in the Soto Zen lineage. That makes him an officially certified Zen teacher.

</strong>

His writing is definately geared towards people whose first language is english. I can see how you find it confusing, as he uses some tricky english.

Certainly, he's allowed his opinion on other books, and you are allowed to disagree with it. Specifically what he means though, is books written in english in the past 20 years. A lot of them ARE trash, and you'd probably agree if you saw the Buddhism section of the bookstores here in the west.

</strong>

Yes, I think he does understand that.

</strong>

No, I think there are still good teachers and bad teachers. As well as good books and bad books.

</strong>

Well, he didn't name any books or teachers specifically in this paragraph.

</strong>

He uses some slang here that you maybe aren't familar with. It is easier to understand for people who grew up in the west, and I think that is the audience he is targeting. He is not insulting Zen.

</strong>

Well, you should come visit the west sometime.

</strong>

I can see what your saying. Easterners also have problems blocking their path.

"Do you think that this Brad only learned Zen halfway, then left and is now insulting it? Seraphim, you are mistaken. This is the first paragraph on the page.

</strong>

Well, actually he can say whatever he wants. So can you.

</strong>

I don't know the guy. You can e-mail him and tell him that yourself if you like. His address is on the bottom of his page. doubtboy@gol.com

</strong>

I don't think you have to be a swordsman to learn zen.

</strong>

Yes.

</strong>

<a href="http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/index.html" target="_blank">http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/index.html</a>

Right at the top of the page.

</strong>

No, she doesn't have anything against Zen.

I edited this message to add some quotes from the articles on this Brad's website.

This is from <a href="http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/konichi-wa.html" target="_blank">http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/konichi-wa.html</a>

This is a quote from <a href="http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/explain.html" target="_blank">http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/explain.html</a>

This one is from <a href="http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/belief.html" target="_blank">http://www2.gol.com/users/doubtboy/belief.html</a>

[ November 28, 2002: Message edited by: monkey mind ]</p>

Answerer

It is hard to judge a person by some words that he had spoken. Nevertheless, I found that it is useful for me to refer back to the 'basics' whether I have difficulty in understanding another person's way of interpretating the Dharma(which can be Zen, etc). Furthermore if a person truly misunderstood the Dharma, it will be a matter of time before he reveal his flaws openly.

Seraphim

"Did you read any of the articles on the site? A lot of what you are saying to me here is very similar to what he says in the artcles on his site."

My reply : Only read the article which you pasted since there was no link (which I could see) other than that.

"Well, he receieved Dharma Transmission from his sensei in the Soto Zen lineage. That makes him an officially certified Zen teacher."

My reply : Officially certified? I didn't know Enlightment comes with certificates nowadays (Sarcasm).
Well, I hope he will do his best in this life so he could either achieve what he is after in this life or the next.

"His writing is definately geared towards people whose first language is english. I can see how you find it confusing, as he uses some tricky english. "

My reply : Correct me if I'm wrong here, but didn't he said something about Yoda, Carradine and Fortune cookies in that article? So what exactly makes his English any better than those?

"Certainly, he's allowed his opinion on other books, and you are allowed to disagree with it. Specifically what he means though, is books written in english in the past 20 years. A lot of them ARE trash, and you'd probably agree if you saw the Buddhism section of the bookstores here in the west."

My reply : Here you have misunderstood me. I will not criticize others or their understanding of something because they are entitled to it. Instead of calling them trash, I will show debate with them and have them see a better view which they may have missed.
There is a chance that those authors simplified the Zen Principles into something others (who has no experience in it) could understand easily.

"No, I think there are still good teachers and bad teachers. As well as good books and bad books. "

My reply : I find that to be irresponsible. In my opinion, there is no good or bad teachers, just good or bad students. Even if I'm a good student, it doesn't mean I will achieve Enlightment nor if I was a bad student, I will fail for the rest of my life.

Achieving something determined by your own hands and your own understanding, not your teacher's knowledge alone.
Here's my advice to you (if you are interested in Buddhism) - You will walk your path ALONE most of the time, so stop looking for hands to hold through and start walking by yourself. Sure ... you will fall and hurt badly (emotionally and physically) now and then, but you must walk it alone.

"Well, he didn't name any books or teachers specifically in this paragraph."

My reply : Hmph ... that makes it acceptable? I see his article as from a man with an ego, not that of a Zen disciple.

"He uses some slang here that you maybe aren't familar with. It is easier to understand for people who grew up in the west, and I think that is the audience he is targeting. He is not insulting Zen. "

My reply : Acceptable.

"Well, you should come visit the west sometime."

My reply : Maybe I should some day ...

"I can see what your saying. Easterners also have problems blocking their path."

My reply : Well, as long as you understand the block and where and why it is there, you have a choice to break the block or live with it.

"Well, actually he can say whatever he wants. So can you."

My reply : Yes, that is acceptable also.

"I don't know the guy. You can e-mail him and tell him that yourself if you like. His address is on the bottom of his page. doubtboy@gol.com"

My reply : Yes, I just may do that, right after I read through everything he wrote properly. Thanks for the e-mail address.

"I don't think you have to be a swordsman to learn zen."

My reply : Really?
I take your opinion as a modern day one, I on the other hand will stick to the classic version where martial arts goes hand in hand with the principle applied to it.

As for the rest, I will reply after reading through it.

"No, she doesn't have anything against Zen."

My reply : Hmmm ... OK, I persume she just getting into it because you have introduce her to it?

By Answerer :

"It is hard to judge a person by some words that he had spoken. Nevertheless, I found that it is useful for me to refer back to the 'basics' whether I have difficulty in understanding another person's way of interpretating the Dharma(which can be Zen, etc). Furthermore if a person truly misunderstood the Dharma, it will be a matter of time before he reveal his flaws openly. "

My reply : Unfortunately, by the time his flaws had been revealed, he could have done damages which cannot be restored easily.

Monk

"Yes, my personal thought is that Westerners have no patience to learn anything properly (especially if it comes with principles and live long practise such as Buddhism and Zen)."

That sounds like a huge generalization of hundreds of millions of individuals.In my view there is really no Easterner and Westerner,We are all individuals and approach things in our own way,and basing views of huge amounts of people in geographic regions,or countries or racial types on the behaviour or views of a few is unhelpful.Generalizing can easily lead to misguided perceptions and impede future relations with these people.At worse it could move from agitation to anger and then hate.

Seraphim

By Monk

That sounds like a huge generalization of hundreds of millions of individuals.In my view there is really no Easterner and Westerner,We are all individuals and approach things in our own way,and basing views of huge amounts of people in geographic regions,or countries or racial types on the behaviour or views of a few is unhelpful.Generalizing can easily lead to misguided perceptions and impede future relations with these people.At worse it could move from agitation to anger and then hate.

My reply : I believe this is my remark (if not, then excuse my interruptions) so I will reply to it.

I wasn't generalization anything ... simply making statements from what I have seen/heard/read from various resources including individual interactions.

Westerners are too used to the concept of having answers been served to them in a silver plater. Why? Because their society was model after hundreds of years of living in Christian religion and background to the point that they will start thinking like one despite of rejecting Christianity.

Here's bunch of question from me :

1. will a man (a Westerner) leave everything he worked for the past decade simply to find answers like what monks in the East been doing for the past few hundred years?

2. can a man (a Westerner) in pursuit his goal in Buddhism beg for alms in the street?

Pursuit of answers by oneself is NOT simply reading sutra and dialogues alone, it also on how a person lives his life in pursuit of his goal. In the East, a person can simply reject everything to pursuit his goal, do Westerner have what it take?