Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Freethinking Ferret · 05-23-2002, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WJ:
To that end, what was the main point of that [Wright's] essay?

Basically, in order to "see" Jesus, you have to not only take into account his portrayal from a historical perspective, but also his portrayal from the xian perspective. Wright says that it is impossible to study any religious figure from a secular viewpoint.

WJ · 05-23-2002, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Freethinking Ferret:


Basically, in order to "see" Jesus, you have to not only take into account his portrayal from a historical perspective, but also his portrayal from the xian perspective. Wright says that it is impossible to study any religious figure from a secular viewpoint.

Thanks Free! I guess then I would say how does the study of any historical figure take place, objectively speaking? I think that an 'unbiased' faith is required, of some sort. but since the word 'religion' enters the scene, then of course things get a bit more complicated.

If you mean that from an 'xian perspective' that unless you actually saw jesus..., I'm still not sure the issues of interpretation and subjectivity wont rear their ugly heads.

maybe the easiest example is trying to study or learn something that I 'hate'. The question then becomes, how well does one actually learn or understand the meaning behind it? Perhaps Wright has a point afterall. What are the distinctions between "study" and the meaning behind 'words and learning' from history.

Thoughts?

Walrus

snatchbalance · 05-23-2002, 07:26 AM

Ferret,

Quote:

Me? I prefer cold, hard facts.

"'Everything straight lies,' murmured the dwarf disdainfully. 'All truth is crooked, time itself is a circle.'"

F. Nietzsche

victorialis · 05-23-2002, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WJ:
...I may be missing something but if one want to attempt an 'objective' understanding of history and/or something that is new to them, it requires a faith to proceed thru the logic and meaning behind the writen material in order to get the jist of it.

In other words, I guess it is obvious that one has to try (although somewhat futile in the end) comprehending something and reaching a subsequenbt conclusion, particularly when learning something completely novel to them, without such baggage as mentioned previously.

At this point, the question remains for me, what is it that makes a person proceed with the proper comprehension or perspective viz. a contradictiory position (belief system) about the same subject matter? Why could it not be the concept called faith?

Walrus[/QB]

Walrus!

Lemme know if you ever come up with answers to all those. They're replicating like a virus.

WJ · 05-23-2002, 09:20 AM

vic!?

Do you have any answers to those?

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

victorialis · 05-23-2002, 01:03 PM

walrus!

Wanna narrow it just a bit? like, pick one?

I'll pick one. Does a person need faith to learn?

No. Only curiosity.

Now I'll pick one of yours for you:

Quote:

What are the distinctions between "study" and the meaning behind 'words and learning' from history.

WJ · 05-23-2002, 01:18 PM

Ok, I'm game.

Does a person need faith to believe in some concept that can't be seen?

snatchbalance · 05-23-2002, 02:00 PM

WJ,

Quote:

I may be missing something but if one want to attempt an 'objective' understanding of history and/or something that is new to them, it requires a faith to proceed thru the logic and meaning behind the writen material in order to get the jist of it.

Of course, one could get through the material and then say to one's self: "Wow, what a load of shit."

SB

[ May 23, 2002: Message edited by: snatchbalance ]

WJ · 05-24-2002, 03:27 AM

Indeed! Then , I wonder at what point objective study becomes subjective belief? Or is it all mixed together?

BTW, I forgot to mention, curiousity killed the cat; does curiousity lead to objective comprehension? Or, does objective study require a faith of some sort?

Life is so confusing, wouldn't you agree?

victorialis · 05-24-2002, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WJ:
Indeed! Then , I wonder at what point objective study becomes subjective belief? Or is it all mixed together?

BTW, I forgot to mention, curiousity killed the cat; does curiousity lead to objective comprehension? Or, does objective study require a faith of some sort?

Life is so confusing, wouldn't you agree?

Life gets a lot more confusing when we equate ourselves with cats.

Why not treat all knowledge as provisional? Why such concern with capital-T truth and capital-O objectivity with regard to all knowledge?

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05-23-2002, 09:20 AM	#15
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	vic!? Do you have any answers to those? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

05-23-2002, 01:18 PM	#17
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	Ok, I'm game. Does a person need faith to believe in some concept that can't be seen?

05-24-2002, 03:27 AM	#19
WJ Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 812	Indeed! Then , I wonder at what point objective study becomes subjective belief? Or is it all mixed together? BTW, I forgot to mention, curiousity killed the cat; does curiousity lead to objective comprehension? Or, does objective study require a faith of some sort? Life is so confusing, wouldn't you agree?

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