Henry-Finland

Is Internet Infidels the root of the Ultimate Cite?

Can we cross-examine the facts and spread them globally?
Time-lines, links, pictures, audio, video, etc.

In this cite I have found out the following:

1) the discussions, or debates, are overwhelmingly civilized, no shouting etc.

2) in this cite is concentrated much knowledge.

3) the issues are interesting and more global than in �some other cites�.

4) many of us sees that the main media can't be trusted

The �problems�:
- the threads comes and goes very fast

- the facts, the very good cites, threads etc. vanish �back into the rotation up to the higher spheres of the Internet�. I mean that when You remember You read something somewhere, it is already gone, because the flow of information is so dense. I have book-marked so many pages the last months that I have hard to find what I am looking for.

- people disappears, about 1.000 other problems, but so what?

We should:
- collect the cross-examined facts in a reasonable way (I do not know a program for this. Is there any?)

- when we have come to a conclusion, we could print it and distribute the �truth�, with links etc. The reader would supposedly go through these �facts� and if not agree, come to the boards and tell what is wrong. If he agrees, he would naturally want more.
The costs of printing, lets say, a pamphlet, lets say 98 pages, per 1.000 pieces is quite low.
We could print the same pamphlets in different countries, continents etc.

Just down-load on a 1,44 Mb disc and the printing company makes the rest.
Or just sell copied discs.
The distribution of these within a country or within EU and to sell some 10 copies to �bright-minded friends" would not be too hard, I think.
- Copyright problems? We just put into the rules �who-ever writes here, has no copyright to his texts."
- Other copyrights from outside our cite: As here, give a small sample and the link.
- Pictures to the stories could be downloaded in the same way (from our "data-bank" in Internet).

The Result:
- We would fight globally the ignorance of man in a very concrete way.
- We would, as like through these discussions, learn more about how people thinks �on the other side of the world�. And yes, we learn ourselves a lot.
Why not to share this with our friends?

My personal opinion:
- If people knows the base of the relative truth, many wars would/can be avoided
- We can�t believe the media in any part of the world (we have to cross-examine it).
- This fight against ignorance can�t be made by �just few people�
- We have to understand this world better, it is shrinking all the time, everything comes nearer our reality. We can�t just push our head into the sand.
- We together speak many languages, so we get information in many languages. Everything can be translated or at least explained in English.

Please discuss this, give Your opinion.
Is there a chance, or should I just close the computer and watch TV?

How many of us would be ready to participate?
You can write here or just E-mail me: [email protected]

Thank You for reading.

Henry

Farren

Henry you're such an idealist. Its nice

BUT

No shouting and stuff??!!! (oh i know I shouldn't do that with question marks and exclamation marks...)
I've read dozens of posts where people are throwing up and falling over from hysteria (me included)

Anyway I share your sentiments about the calibre of thinkers on this site, and even if a lot of sci forums boast intelligent individuals, theres a real diversity here (apart from, um, the obvious commonalities)

What are you proposing exactly, getting the archives, editing and hypertexting it into a more distilled form (removing repeated discussions, troll stuff etc)? Something like that?

Farren

Oop didn't read your post properly.

You're saying distill the philosphical debates to some kind of little book of wisdom?

Zadok001

Huh. I always spelled it "site."

The problem with this concept, as always, is the question of who ought to determine the 'truth.' There's no reasonable way to say "Here! We've determined the truth about the effectiveness of the Argument from Evil!" It just doesn't work that way.

Henry-Finland

Farren wrote:

�What are you proposing exactly, getting the archives, editing and hypertexting it into a more distilled form (removing repeated discussions, troll stuff etc)? Something like that?�

Yes! More or less exactly like that.

Farren wrote further:
�You're saying distill the philosphical debates to some kind of little book of wisdom?�

Or maybe just discs?
I just feel that so much very good text, or literal wisdom, is going down the drain.

and
Zadok 001 wrote:
Huh. I always spelled it "site."

Yes it is correct. I checked with my Oxford. You do know that English is not my first lingua, so i do not always know what is correct.

Zadok 001 wrote further:
�The problem with this concept, as always, is the question of who ought to determine the 'truth.' There's no reasonable way to say "Here! We've determined the truth about the effectiveness of the Argument from Evil!" It just doesn't work that way.�

Yes I understand.
But if we take an example like the thread, where I have not participated, about �about WWII�.
There is many angles, many answers. And it seem to that the guys comes to some kind of conclusions.
Let�s assume that You are interested in this question, well You just copy it on a disc, or 10 discs, give or sell these discs to Your friends. If they are interested, they will �join the club�, I think.
And the more people makes research, thinks, the better.

Then:
- trolls. You just put them away from Your copy, and write: �This copy is edited by Zadok 001.�

- Side-stepping, shouting etc. or something not so important. You do as above.
If You live in the �The Two Steps Ahead-land� and I live in Sweden, what does it matter. One copy is edited by me the other by You.
Still there is all the links, references, where to download possible pictures, audio etc.

See how much material we have on this Iraq-crisis, its history etc. It will be �forgotten�. After 15 years You can give a lot of a news-reel to Your children, and naturally go through Your memories about this or that.

I have everything I have written on 3 hard-disks, just for keeping.
I have the first one from 6 year back. I do not have all the poems I wrote to my wife some 8 � 10 year back.
I would like to have them, but I wrote on paper those days. (this is not important here).

Anyhow, we have now discussed, gone through files about Iraq for 6 months. We more or less know how it developed to a war.
This pattern should never again happen. But if we look at it, it is always the same pattern to 60 %.
And there we are again; at the brink of a new war.

See it like this:
You are an Englishman. When You visit Finland, You are a representative of Your country. Right?
When You go to China, You are a representative of Europe, an English �diplomat�. You do not want to be a jerk! Right?
But when You are there, You want to understand them and that they understand You. Right?

So now we are connected through this Net. And more is coming. From the other side of the world.
If we can, through this net, on the grass-level see what is made wrong, how this or that should be done, there is only one outcome.
The stupid politicians will be out of business, when the guy on the street can directly tell him �what is the time just now� = �Fuck, I know that Your decision about Baharin was the most egoistic You have done!�

We can only fight the ignorance by fighting the ignorance! It is simple like that. But how to do it?

If there is a straight telephone-line to a senator in a �on air� program, they use �filters� to filter out the most stupid questions.
You can imagine how many questions are today: �Mr senator, my neighbours cat is peeing on my lawn. Can I sue him?�
This is the real reason why politicians gives a shit what the voters think. They where more concerned what the media is writing.
But now the media is in their pockets, so I see as the only way to make a �grass-root-media� and get more people involved in this work.

If I am not mentioning Bush, but this time former Russian president Jeltsin. He had very much power and a syndicate with his daughter run this country. Or robbed this country. The president drunk vodka.

Every 10 � 20 year, we have some complete idiot as a captain, and he does not know where is the rear of the ship.
We can vote for the guy that can�t think or that guy that can�t drink.
And they are fucking up our business every now and then. Mostly �constantly now�.

End of rant.

Any ideas?

PS. The Third World Traveller is something quite near what I have in mind. But as we get more Giga-bytes, we can put in more pictures, voice etc. Just make a multimedia at home. Just like that.

Have a nice day filled with ideas!

Henry

Farren

Henry maybe we should put this to the site admins as a project (I know a few java devs and as soon as I get my credit card replaced- it was stolen- I'd be willing to help with extra gigs and a little editing)

Have a nice day filled with these these , and one or two of these

(this smiley fixation is getting out of control. I need help)