Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 05-01-2003, 02:54 PM

To get back on topic:

This slaughter of firstborns makes me wonder if firstborns were considered especially precious by some of the writers of the Bible -- why first instead of third or seventh or whatever? Why any at all?

WinAce · 05-01-2003, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Why do you care if I see it?

I don't. That's why I said "Magusites" instead of "Magus".

Quote:

Just because you don't agree with God's actions means didly.

Of course not, I already know Yahweh is a fiction from the bloodthirsty Bronze Age. My topic is meant to solicit opinions from Christians on how they agree with their god's actions.

Quote:

Everyone has an opinion - why would I care what you say? I know you are wrong, so don't need to even bother.

You doth protest too much if you know that I'm wrong. I have a feeling you're not convinced at all by innerantist apologetics but several factors keep you from admitting so.

So, I take it you do agree with killing children of citizens, slaves and even prisoners, who have no chance of escape whatsoever, because the leader of their nation acted as uncooperatively as you wanted and made him to be?

winstonjen · 05-01-2003, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by WinAce
Of course not, I already know Yahweh is a fiction from the bloodthirsty Bronze Age. My topic is meant to solicit opinions from Christians on how they agree with their god's actions.

And the interesting thing is, some of them don't agree (but then again, I suppose they're not TRUE Christians

) with their god's actions, proving that they pick and choose what verses to believe and follow.

Quote:

You doth protest too much if you know that I'm wrong. I have a feeling you're not convinced at all by innerantist apologetics but several factors keep you from admitting so.

Probably the insecurity factor.

Quote:

So, I take it you do agree with killing children of citizens, slaves and even prisoners, who have no chance of escape whatsoever, because the leader of their nation acted as uncooperatively as you wanted and made him to be?

And I am sure that Magus will make some excuse, in an attempt to justify 'collective guilt' (despite the fact that the common people had no say in government), and that the 'harden heart' verses don't actually mean what they say.

:banghead: :banghead:

WinAce · 05-03-2003, 08:39 PM

I guess no theist thinks God's depicted actions in Exodus 11 were justified. How nice.

WinAce · 05-06-2003, 07:28 PM

Bumpity?

Rousseau_CHN · 05-07-2003, 03:54 AM

Was it anti-semitic what I posted?

Bobby Fischer once said that he was not anti-semitic. He was against Jew--that is true but he certainly wasn't anti-semitic. He wasn't against arabs who are also semitic.

I'm not anti-semitic. And I'm taking back the statement that says I haven't met a jew. I met Henry Kissinger once...and I believe I was cordial to him.

The problem here does not lie with me, but with the Western experience. For how else could I have put it. The Torah, which happens to be written by a semitic tribe of palestine, is a book full of vengeance.

How else could I say it? How else could I say that a tribe-- which upholds a literary piece that is full of vengeance-- is vindictive?

How else should I put that it is vindictive of a people to wish harm on the sons of their oppresors?

The alternative is not to say anything at all...[Removed information from a Private Message - Maverick - IIDB Administrator]

Awhile ago I said that this is a western problem. And indeed it is. With a history of blood in your hands, a single utterance about race sends you scrambling.

Rousseau_CHN · 05-07-2003, 04:06 AM

Another thing that bothers me is the fact that moderators in the Infidels seem to be forgetting one thing: There are atheists in this forum.

Since I don't believe in God, I'm curious how the 10th plague of Egypt came about. What were the reasons for writing such literary piece? One reason is that there is a group of people who thirst for vengeance. And this vengeance do not seem to know any boundaries. It is willing to sacrifice the innocents in the altar of revenge.

A story like this is cherished generation after generation. How do we call the people who cherished it? Vindictive! And the Jew themselves attest to this virtue of theirs. It is the reason behind the phrase "A tooth for a tooth." It is the reason why they tirelessly pursue their Nazi captors. It is the reason why they call their God "El Nikomes--Jealous God or God of Vengeance".

***finis***

keyser_soze · 05-07-2003, 07:25 AM

I could lay book on the christian responses. I once asked the same thing, and had someone say to me...in due seriousness..."If you knew that iraq had a terrorist explode a nuke in L.A. wouldn't you want to nuke Iraq?"...My response: "Uh, no. You need to find the perpetrators, not melt an entire nation into glass just because the head of their country did such a thing. Do you think the women and children in Iraq need to be nuked to kind of even it out for you?". They left the thread. Dumbasses.

BadBadBad · 05-07-2003, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich
To get back on topic:

This slaughter of firstborns makes me wonder if firstborns were considered especially precious by some of the writers of the Bible -- why first instead of third or seventh or whatever? Why any at all?

Why? The why is pretty clear "That my wonders may be multiplied." "That ye may know how that I am the Lord." "That my name be declared throughout the Earth." "That thou may knowest that there is none like me in all the Earth." "That I might shew my power in thee." That's a pretty noble cause huh?

Firstborns are great. God murdered the first borns for a greater purpose. Even if the christians will admit the murdering never happened, what's the message from God that was cannonized in this story? It's pretty clear to me, and the christians I've met don't lose much sleep over it.

Beetle · 05-07-2003, 02:08 PM

As a former "hyper-literalist" I think the normal Christian reaction depends on the idea that the God of the Bible is all-good, all-loving, and perfectly just (despite evidence to the contrary). So, when confronted by a horrible story like this, the response is to say "It must've been just because God did it." Anything done by the deity is automatically considered good, right and just (even if you have to twist the meaning of those words beyond all recognition).

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05-01-2003, 02:54 PM	#11
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	To get back on topic: This slaughter of firstborns makes me wonder if firstborns were considered especially precious by some of the writers of the Bible -- why first instead of third or seventh or whatever? Why any at all?

05-03-2003, 08:39 PM	#14
WinAce Beloved Deceased Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Carrboro, NC Posts: 1,539	I guess no theist thinks God's depicted actions in Exodus 11 were justified. How nice.

05-06-2003, 07:28 PM	#15
WinAce Beloved Deceased Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Carrboro, NC Posts: 1,539	Bumpity?

05-07-2003, 03:54 AM	#16
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	Was it anti-semitic what I posted? Bobby Fischer once said that he was not anti-semitic. He was against Jew--that is true but he certainly wasn't anti-semitic. He wasn't against arabs who are also semitic. I'm not anti-semitic. And I'm taking back the statement that says I haven't met a jew. I met Henry Kissinger once...and I believe I was cordial to him. The problem here does not lie with me, but with the Western experience. For how else could I have put it. The Torah, which happens to be written by a semitic tribe of palestine, is a book full of vengeance. How else could I say it? How else could I say that a tribe-- which upholds a literary piece that is full of vengeance-- is vindictive? How else should I put that it is vindictive of a people to wish harm on the sons of their oppresors? The alternative is not to say anything at all...[Removed information from a Private Message - Maverick - IIDB Administrator] Awhile ago I said that this is a western problem. And indeed it is. With a history of blood in your hands, a single utterance about race sends you scrambling.

05-07-2003, 04:06 AM	#17
Rousseau_CHN Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nowhere Land Posts: 441	Another thing that bothers me is the fact that moderators in the Infidels seem to be forgetting one thing: There are atheists in this forum. Since I don't believe in God, I'm curious how the 10th plague of Egypt came about. What were the reasons for writing such literary piece? One reason is that there is a group of people who thirst for vengeance. And this vengeance do not seem to know any boundaries. It is willing to sacrifice the innocents in the altar of revenge. A story like this is cherished generation after generation. How do we call the people who cherished it? Vindictive! And the Jew themselves attest to this virtue of theirs. It is the reason behind the phrase "A tooth for a tooth." It is the reason why they tirelessly pursue their Nazi captors. It is the reason why they call their God "El Nikomes--Jealous God or God of Vengeance". *finis*

05-07-2003, 07:25 AM	#18
keyser_soze Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: god's judge (pariah) Posts: 1,281	I could lay book on the christian responses. I once asked the same thing, and had someone say to me...in due seriousness..."If you knew that iraq had a terrorist explode a nuke in L.A. wouldn't you want to nuke Iraq?"...My response: "Uh, no. You need to find the perpetrators, not melt an entire nation into glass just because the head of their country did such a thing. Do you think the women and children in Iraq need to be nuked to kind of even it out for you?". They left the thread. Dumbasses.

05-07-2003, 02:08 PM	#20
Beetle Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Massachusetts State Home for the Bewildered Posts: 961	As a former "hyper-literalist" I think the normal Christian reaction depends on the idea that the God of the Bible is all-good, all-loving, and perfectly just (despite evidence to the contrary). So, when confronted by a horrible story like this, the response is to say "It must've been just because God did it." Anything done by the deity is automatically considered good, right and just (even if you have to twist the meaning of those words beyond all recognition).

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