Bree

So the only decent conversation one can have is about either religion or politics???

The reason most people go out of their way to not discuss religion or politics at parties is to avoid offending anyone who doesn't hold their same belief on the subject (or to avoid an unslightly brawl in the parking lot). It's common courtesy.

JLennon

Bree, people tend to not talk politics or religion because they are controlled into not talking about it. They are forced into small talk about the weather and little what nots. Then if the conversation evolves into politics or religion--then shit hits the fan.

philechat

I will happily discuss religion with others, including (most if not all) believers. I usually don't initiate such discussions until the other party shows interest, however, and I usually don't reveal my "atheism" until I was directly asked.

JLennon

And you think you have a choice when and when you cannot discuss religion? You think that you have made this decision? I contend that you have done no such thing. The decision on when you can and cannot talk about such issues is made for you in advance. You do not have a choice here--though you may think that you do. As an atheist, you apparently think you have free will at just about everything and that you make all your own decisions. The truth is more closer to the opposite. Read Orwell's 1984--it is a done deal and there is nothing that you can do about it even if you had the will and desire to alter the course of things.

philechat

I find your post a little confusing. Are you saying because I am an "atheist" I cannot make any decision of whether I will or will not discuss religion? As I said I will not bombard anyone who is not interested in the "atheistic viewpoint" with my own view on religion. It is not my business to initiate discussions on religion unless people show some amount of interests in my POV. I would say similar things about any discussions, including literature and music. I add in some comments of mine as I see fit. Whether people will think it to be correct or not is secondary.

JLennon

I am saying by design we live in a culture where being upfront with your feelings about important issues is too taboo for you to actually have a choice when you can and cannot discuss profound topics. For the most mind control, it is best that our government is just mainly a two-party system. It is best that televison caters to the lowest common denominator--and when it can't do that, it needs to change angles a lot to cater to people with attention deficet disorders to make people less able to focus. There are tons of things like that done in the american culture to keep people stupid and under control. Even sublimitaly. That is why most TV stations go off the air with the american flag and national anthem etc.. The movie industry and publishing industries are very well controled and monitored. They can even make most people think that PBS is not a government controled channel--let alone CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN etcetera. All of these are government stations just like PBS--but most people are conned into thinking that they are a part of free enterprise. Nothing could be further from the truth. I am just scratching the surface here on just how much controlled we are.

philechat

Actually, not only do I seldom watch TV, I force myself to watch movies and read books from different cultures. I am not an American and I am of no particular fan of the "American culture" per se. And if secularism and tolerance were threatened I would certainly be open about my opinions. It can almost be hopeless now given that I am not a US citizen and what we believed could hardly be translated to the Bush government.

I only care about a select group of "enlightened" people who will be interested in discussing profound issues. If a given group of people lack the intelligence and open-mindedness of discussing the issues then I would rather not bother them. They can have religion as much as they want and be happy in their little suburbs, if such would made them happy. I am rather pessimistic about the probabability of those people's enlightenment.

JLennon

Well, america is the most advance because of our secularism. Nevertheless we are constantly monitored and controled by the media and our beloved zionist government. It is real stupid for people to discuss differences between conservativism and liberalism or Repulicans and Democrats when both are in absolute cahoots with one another. Judeo/Christianity is in the exact same bed as marxism and atheism. One reacts to the other ad naseum. Do you really think you are different philechat because you are not mainstream? Your mind is probably more polluted than mainstream thinkers. Since you do not seem to comprehend my arguments, then you have bought into an ideology you think you have created on your own. You see diversity where there is none. If I buy a white car--but it is different shade from the white car I already own, then you think I should call one of them off white. You see diversity where there is none. <-- I just said the exact same sentence a couple sentence back :banghead:

philechat

Until you know how to not use ad hominem I will let you rant on whatever "ideology" you hold on to (or what you believed me to hold on to). I see no point of arguing with anyone who does not respect me as a person.

Cthulhu

Gee, the only thing you forgot to mention is the Trilateralists, the CFR, the Freemasons, and the Illuminati (who are all being controlled by the Gray aliens from Zeta Reticula).