Calzaer

I know you're around, Badfish. You responded to me in another thread. Come on, already! I want to hear about your fulfilled prophecies and how the Jews invented Eastern religion!

Magus55

Not thats not true. Not everything we do is a sin - you aren't sinning every second of your life. How is breathing a sin? It doesn't go against God's nature. Praying isn't either unless you are insulting someone or God in your prayer.

Calzaer

So since even the tiniest sin is infinite, why should we NOT go out and randomly murder, rape, pillage, and blaspheme? We're going to hell just as much as the guy who said "Goddamnit!" when he stubbed his toe.

Further, we all get the loophole of the "deathbed conversion", which means even if we did all that crap, as long as we convert before we die (like Ted Bundy or Karla Faye Tucker), we get to heaven anyway!

Not a whole lot of inspiration to behave in a moral manner, in Christianity.

Badfish

Calzaer, time will tell if the prophesies are fulfilled.

As far as Tao, I haven't the foggiest idea. And since it's God seems to not be Sovereign enough (if it even exists) to convey his message to the world, then it says something about that God.

I am not ignoring you, I work and have children, I don't always have time for an immediate response, give me a chance.

You know what, I'm actually tired of talking about God, especially when no one listens, and since it seems to be a topic in which you enjoy, why drive your purpose for debate away?

Do you just want me to go away?

Paperstreet

No. remember saying this:

Breathing in an way that isn't perfect would be a sin according to your previous statement. Stop changing your mind!!!

Calzaer

Not only are you blatantly wrong (or else lying through your teeth), you're moving the goalpost.

FIRST you said that Yahweh was the ONLY god who "stood the test of time". When confronted with other gods who, not being offshoots of Yaweh, have stood the test of time, you say "Well, they didn't spread the word to the rest of the world, so they don't count." :banghead: :banghead:

Even IF that were true (there are about as many Taoists in America as there are Protestants in China), the evangelical or non-evangelical nature of a religion has NO BEARING on its truth or falsity.

So, in short, you have been PROVEN 100% WRONG about Yaweh being the only god to have "stood the test of time". Now you want to talk about religions who have threatened the infidels with physical and spiritual torture if they don't convert. That's fine, but it's a completely different subject with no bearing on your original idiotic claim. Would you like to formally cede your previous point and move on to this one so it can be beaten to death with the conversational big stick as well?

Opera Nut

lpetrich, not only is the Jews for Judaism a great website, which details stuff like Messianic Jews being a front group for the Southern Baptists, according to their own materials, but,

There is a very good sermon why Jesus is not the Messiah predicted in the OT at www.bethyeshurun.org/

Congregation Beth Yeshurun is a large conservative congregation in Houston.

Calzaer

/bump!

Darth Dane

I'm also taking the chance that none of the Greek gods exist.

I'm also taking the chance that Ahuru Mazda does not exist.

I'm taking the chance that the Great Spirit of the North American Indians does not exist.

I'm taking the chance that Osiris, Horus, Set, Isis, and Ra don't exist.

I'm taking the chance that Allah doesn't exist.

I'm taking the chance that Yahweh and Elohim don't exist, whether or not they are they same god.

I'm taking the chance that the Christian God does not exist.

I'm taking the chance that the Hindu gods do not exist.

I'm taking a chance that the Aztec gods do not exist.



On a funny note, I have the exact opposite stance:

I am taking the chance that everything you can mention exist, better safe than sorry eh?

I believe anything is possible, so to say that some God doesn't exist is ludicrous, although I don't know if they do, it would seem silly to assume otherwise, but hey thats just me





DD - Love Spliff

Stephen T-B

Just thinking about this thread in a loose, unstructured sort of a way (basically procrastinating ‘cause I should be doing something else)...
In many conservative communities, particularly in the States, giving lip-service to Christianity may still be required behaviour for anyone aspiring to be influential or to be regarded as respectable, but the mere fact that the world’s foremost internet forum for atheists is predominantly American shows how the religion’s grip, even in its heartland, is weakening.
Take this discussion: up until relatively recently, folk like Badfish and Magus wouldn’t even need to be thinking about the nature of Heaven, let alone having to justify it.
The bulk of the populations in Christendom accepted that their religious leaders were telling them indisputable facts when they spoke of Heaven and Hell .The authority of the Church was such that analysing the descriptions and detecting incoherence in them wasn’t something many people would admit to doing, even if, in the privacy of their own brains, they did. Any nonsense, therefore, could be spouted by church leaders and the large bulk of their congregations would sit there taking it all in, confident that the priest had a direct line to God.
I’m sure that’s still true among the majority of church-goers, but year by year there’s a falling away and the number of True Believers shrinks. And as it does, the awkward questions - such as those raised in this thread - will be asked with a hitherto unheard-of boldness, and Christians will need to think about them with far greater clarity than has been shown here.
The brighter of them will realise that ingenuity in providing a specious defence is not a viable option because too many people are only too ready to pick it apart.
When the Faithful engage with reason and classical logic they should consider if they are perhaps in areas where Faith doesn’t belong.
The Creationists make themselves look ludicrous by attempting to fit the physical universe into their religious dogma, but the mistake they make is repeated whenever a religionist thinks that spirituality and physical reality have anything in common.
They don’t. Spirituality has no physical properties and while it may exist alongside the physical universe, its interactions with it are not susceptible to examination by any tools devised by the human brain, including reason and logic
Faith functions somewhere else.