Ronin

Loren, you may hold to your overly strenuous position.

The only reason I offered any insight was to address the sweeping generalizations you made...which I have done.

Traffic enforcement is also conducted to save lives.

I do not argue from omnipotence that each officer is motivated by this principle...nor the one you assert.

I am motivated by the protective measures traffic enforcement brings...and I hope you can live with the notion that there just may be others that are as well.

Gurdur

heh, heh.
And exactly the same can be said about posters on SecWEb.



Add me as another person thoroughly in favour of speed limits and speed tickets.

BTW, Ronin, you might be interested to know just as a technical side-note:
As is famous, the German autobahns often have no speed limit on them.
However, if people get into a nasty accident, the speed at which they were going ios factored into resultant legalities ---- if they were going at too high a speed (speed limits are not there, but recommended speeds are), then they get slammed with contributory negligence etc.

Speed limits save lives.

Ultimate Atheist

I don't think anyone here said they were against speed limits. The only thing about speed limits that pisses me off is when the limit suddenly drops for no reason just so the cops can sit there and rack up tickets.

Loren Pechtel

It's not just the drops, it's the unreasonably low ones in the first place. It's also the too-short yellow lights. Shave a half-second off the yellow and rack up the tickets.

Back in driver's ed we were taught it takes 4 seconds of travel distance in order to stop. If so, how can you justify a yellow less than 4 seconds?

Ronin

Methinks you both are protesting too much...over things you have personal control over.

<wanders off, toolbox in hand...to re-adjust traffic lights and re-set speed signs>

Ultimate Atheist

Methinks you're biased and need to admit that the government is not always looking out for the publics best interest despite what some government officials may say. I have nothing against cops in general. I've encountered quite a few that were really decent guys. I don't blame cops for unfair laws or speed traps. Its the rich old farts that make the laws that are to blame.

Ronin

I don't recall ever having made the assertion the government is always looking out for the publics best interest...always, you say <review thread>...no, I haven't said that at all.

I've taken the middle road in contrast to the generalizations that Loren asserted...

Quote by Ronin ~

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These are the old farts that are elected by the public...a public that has the power to voice their displeasure at the voting booth, in court and/or at the patrol sergeants desk.

nixon

"These are the old farts that are elected by the public...a public that has the power to voice their displeasure at the voting booth, in court and/or at the patrol sergeants desk."

I'll agree with this the day they put a "None of the above" button in the voting booth. Vote for a Democrat or vote for a Republican. In most ways, I can't tell the difference, and concerning local laws & traffic, they totally agree with each other. So don't tell me I make a difference in the voting booth.

Court is designed to be prohibitively expensive to fight traffic tickets. Even if you win, you often must pay more than admitting guilt would have cost. You know theres a reason for that.

And if I were to go in and protest at the patrol sergeants desk, I would probably find myself in even more trouble as there are all kinds of little laws not commonly enforced that can and are when you piss of the cops. And disapproving of the cops enforcement/actions will generally piss them off.

Loren Pechtel

Well, driver's ed taught us 4 seconds. How am I supposed to stop in 3.5?

I've been ticketed on this one once--at the time the light went yellow I was too close to it to stop. As far as I could tell it was still yellow when I entered the intersection. The cop said otherwise. I do not see what I could do about it other than avoid the intersection.

Besides, they have found that red light cameras reduce accidents *IN* the intersection--but cause a greater increase in accidents before the intersection--people doing hard braking to keep from getting a ticket. Lengthen the yellow a little bit and the accidents go down.
Conclusion: It's not about accidents, it's about money.

Loren Pechtel

There's no point in squawking at the patrol sergeants desk--he's simply obeying orders.

Court--it's been done. California ended up having to wipe a *LOT* of tickets, and refund millions, when someone filed a class action suit showing it was about revenue, not safety. However, that's beyond what the average person can do.

Ballot box--very hard. What candidate says they are going to fix the traffic rules? I sure haven't seen one!