FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > IIDB ARCHIVE: 200X-2003, PD 2007 > IIDB Philosophical Forums (PRIOR TO JUN-2003)
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 05:55 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-26-2002, 02:45 AM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Columbus OH USA
Posts: 12
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by monkey mind:
<strong>Hi all. I'm not formally educated in philosophy, but I enjoy trying my hand at it in my own amateur way. I have a theory of absolute morality I've been thinking about, and I was wondering if you could tell me where I go right or wrong with it. I'm sure I'm not the only person to think of this possibility either, so if you want to just point me to an article or book that deals with it, that would be appreciated as well.

It seems to me that there is argument about whether morality is absolute, or if it is completely relative. How does one person tell another what is wrong? I think that there is an absolute right and wrong that everyone agrees on, and my reasoning is this.

1. Every animal has the instict of self-preservation.
2. In humans, this instict manifests itself intellectually as the view "I believe it is wrong for something to harm me."
3. Since all humans have the instict of self-preservation, then all humans hold this belief.
4. Therefore, morality becomes a question of convincing everyone else not to harm you.

I guess if my assumption that every animal has the instict of self-preservation is wrong, then the theory falls apart, but is there a way of proving or disproving this assumption? Does the fact that people commit suicide disprove it? But if everyone who commits suicide thinks that they will be better off dead, isn't that self-preservation?

When it comes to the question of What constitutes 'harm', then I guess at that point it does become relative. But I think at the root of it, there is an absolute basis for morality.</strong>
The first consideration when seeking out a 'philosophy' of life and living must necessarily be whether one wants an 'objective' one or a 'subjective' one - and whether one is sufficiently informed to know the difference. Subjective philosophies (which reflect most of what has been imposed on humanity to-date) are designed to answer the question, "What can I get away with in life and with the greatest number of people?" Objective philosophy (which has been identified by only 2 recognized philosophers in history, Aristotle being the first) seeks an answer to the primary question, "What is the meaning and value of my existence within the context of perceivable REALITY?"

The 2nd philosopher built upon Aristotle's foundation, and identified the only fully integrated system of 'objectivity' to the otherwise offensively subjective realm of human philosophy. Her name was Ayn Rand, and the system she, alone, so brilliantly identified is called the Philosophy of Objectivism. You can find its authorized website by searching "Ayn Rand". I've studied it intensively for over 17 years now, and I've yet to find any meaningful contradiction anywhere in it.

You'll also find in this philosophy the answer to your question about the viable concept she called "rational suicide" - and yes, it fully embraces your stated concept of 'self-preservation'. Her philosophical system, as one should expect, also identifies a full and rationally objective code of 'morality' with which to implement its stated values and principles. Again, it's 'fully integrated' - something no other philosopher in recorded history accomplished.

Good luck...
XGuilt is offline  
Old 10-26-2002, 03:41 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 28
Post

I think there are two approaches that can be taken toward attempting to define or understand the basis of morality.

I think a lot of people probably have some kind of synthesis of both approaches in their own individual conceptualization of morality.

One approach would be based on what is harmful or beneficial to people. If something is life giving or sustaining we view it as good. If something is threatening, grievous or deadly we view it as wrong.

The other approach seems to be connected to an understanding or a belief that there is some other kind of reality or standard to which adherence or compliance is due. Why? I don't know. However, compliance, adherence, and actions that are consistent with the standard are moral, they are axiomatically true.

It should be pointed out that the 'reality' and 'standard' might not be well understood or even at all evident according to a well elucidated rigourous proof fashion.

This facet to truth actually has a sense of objectivity because the individual feels that there is a standard that has it's justification entirely outside of their level of existence, entirely beyond personal, cultural or national or racial motivations. It is very abstracted and ideal.

This type obviously comes into play in the lives of peoples and cultures that posess or develop religious belief.

Each individual likely struggles with a synthesis of what I have attempted to describe here as two approaches or understandings.
Baptist Vine is offline  
Old 10-26-2002, 10:58 PM   #13
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 274
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by monkey mind:
<strong>Hi all. I'm not formally educated in philosophy, but I enjoy trying my hand at it in my own amateur way. I have a theory of absolute morality I've been thinking about, and I was wondering if you could tell me where I go right or wrong with it. I'm sure I'm not the only person to think of this possibility either, so if you want to just point me to an article or book that deals with it, that would be appreciated as well.</strong>
You might be interested in Larry Arnhart's book, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0791436942/internetinfidelsA/" target="_blank">Darwinian Natural Right.</a> Arnhart defends the view that the good is the desirable, and he identifies over 20 natural desires that virtually all humans share. Arnhart argues that moral goodness is identical with what promotes human flourishing.

Hope this of some help.

Best wishes,

Jeffery Jay Lowder
jlowder is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:36 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.