Freethought & Rationalism Archive

scumble · 08-01-2003, 01:47 AM

emotional has again demonstrated to me that keeping a religion chained to an old book kills it. Her religion is still alive. Orthodox christianity is dead because it is stuck with the Bible, written a very long time ago, and now it's bogged down in a morass of theological pontification.
If there is revelation, it ought to be everywhere, if God permeates the universe.
I say you can either accept God because of the apparent yearning humans have for improvement, or accept that natural processes have given us the advantage to be the most successful species on earth, and continue to evolve in body and mind. Or, you can chain yourself to a theology. It might help some people, but not everyone.

HRG · 08-01-2003, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whispers
It may help some of you to know that in my understanding, you are looked upon by God according to the revelation you have experienced. The more you become aware of Jesus, his life and teaching, the more you are committed to accepting the freely offered hand or rejecting it.

I haven't at all become aware of Jesus etc. I am aware of texts which claim something about his existence, his life, his teaching etc. That's a big difference.

Quote:

The tribesmen in Papua New guinea for eg, may have no experience of revelation and will be looked upon in this light. If you study the historical account of Jesus and evidence, and then study the Gospels, and then reject the freely offered hand, it is your own decision

No. It is not my decision , it is my conclusion: a cognitive, not a volitional act. It wasn't my decision either to accept the fundamental theorem of algebra, it was a conclusion from seeing the proof; and I could not have "decided" to believe the contrary.

IOW, I cannot reject a hand unless I believe that its exists.

I have a standard request for those who claim that belief is the result of a decision. I ask them to decide to believe in Zeus for an hour, followed by belief in Odin for half an hour; according to their claim, this should be easy. I'd be interested in any results of this experiment.

Regards,
HRG.

No Quarter · 08-01-2003, 06:05 AM

Majody and Asha'man,

Please feel free to use my story andyhwere you please! I actually use this same story very often to argue against christians. In particular I was having a discussion with a young earth type loony. He was pulling every apologetic trick in the book to try and disprove modern science. Realizing that he would not put any creedence into the veracity of science I came up with this story to tell him. since he would not listen to reason, I figured it would at least appeal to his emotions. Anyway, after my story, I asked him how he could possibly resolve his beliefs against this illustration. He gave the old chestnut that we are not authorized to judge god's actions - we are also incapable of knowing what god's ultimate plan is for us.

Blah blah blah!

Glad someone liked it!

NQ

Jobar · 08-01-2003, 08:22 AM

To the Christians who post here-

This forum is the 'Existence of God(s)', and NOT the 'Witness to the Atheists' forum. If you want to try to convince us that your paticular version of God exists, fine- but you should remember that lots of us were born and raised in some Christian denomination. I was born & raised a Southern Baptist, and decided the whole thing was bunk about age 15.

If the only 'proof' you have to offer is personal testimony, well, we have plenty of that too.

I personally, and many of the others here, find this sort of preaching quite irritating, and extremely boring. It does NOT help your cause in the least, and only reinforces our view that your religious faith is a result of deep indoctrination from childhood, and has no basis in rational thought.

We used to have a 'Rants, Raves and Preaching' forum, where this sort of thing was common- for you newer members, I suggest you peruse some of the threads there, to see just how this was met. (Re-set the 'last 10 days' to 'the beginning'.) I'll warn you that RR&P was *not* required to maintain the high standards we try to hold to here in EoG.

I am locking this thread

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08-01-2003, 01:47 AM	#41
scumble Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: UK Posts: 279	emotional has again demonstrated to me that keeping a religion chained to an old book kills it. Her religion is still alive. Orthodox christianity is dead because it is stuck with the Bible, written a very long time ago, and now it's bogged down in a morass of theological pontification. If there is revelation, it ought to be everywhere, if God permeates the universe. I say you can either accept God because of the apparent yearning humans have for improvement, or accept that natural processes have given us the advantage to be the most successful species on earth, and continue to evolve in body and mind. Or, you can chain yourself to a theology. It might help some people, but not everyone.

08-01-2003, 06:05 AM	#43
No Quarter Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: A place so dense a tablespoon of it would weigh as much as 10,000 battleships Posts: 86	Majody and Asha'man, Please feel free to use my story andyhwere you please! I actually use this same story very often to argue against christians. In particular I was having a discussion with a young earth type loony. He was pulling every apologetic trick in the book to try and disprove modern science. Realizing that he would not put any creedence into the veracity of science I came up with this story to tell him. since he would not listen to reason, I figured it would at least appeal to his emotions. Anyway, after my story, I asked him how he could possibly resolve his beliefs against this illustration. He gave the old chestnut that we are not authorized to judge god's actions - we are also incapable of knowing what god's ultimate plan is for us. Blah blah blah! Glad someone liked it! NQ

08-01-2003, 08:22 AM	#44
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	To the Christians who post here- This forum is the 'Existence of God(s)', and NOT the 'Witness to the Atheists' forum. If you want to try to convince us that your paticular version of God exists, fine- but you should remember that lots of us were born and raised in some Christian denomination. I was born & raised a Southern Baptist, and decided the whole thing was bunk about age 15. If the only 'proof' you have to offer is personal testimony, well, we have plenty of that too. I personally, and many of the others here, find this sort of preaching quite irritating, and extremely boring. It does NOT help your cause in the least, and only reinforces our view that your religious faith is a result of deep indoctrination from childhood, and has no basis in rational thought. We used to have a 'Rants, Raves and Preaching' forum, where this sort of thing was common- for you newer members, I suggest you peruse some of the threads there, to see just how this was met. (Re-set the 'last 10 days' to 'the beginning'.) I'll warn you that RR&P was not required to maintain the high standards we try to hold to here in EoG. I am locking this thread

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