Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sauron · 07-27-2003, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vorkosigan
Hey, Doc X, it has started early...did you see the ROM's reaction to the arrest of Oded Golan?

July 23 announcement

Vorkosigan

And here they are, trying to stake out a little maneuvering room, in case they need to retreat and retract later on:

The ROM exists in part to help facilitate public understanding and debate about important artifacts and specimens. We considered the James Ossuary an extraordinary opportunity to contribute to the scientific assessment of a new and controversial object by being the first museum to present it to the public, during an important gathering of biblical archaeology scholars, and by hosting a public debate among leading experts. This forms part of an ongoing process of scientific study and discovery, which many other famous artifacts have been undergoing for years.

Toto · 07-28-2003, 08:11 PM

Tempers flare in James ossuary debate: Toronto director's film screened

Quote:

. . .

Dealer Oded Golan, out on bail, was at the Jerusalem Cinematheque yesterday night, defending his relics and his honour. Toronto filmmaker Simcha Jacobovici was there to back him up.

But Israeli experts dismissed the show with a wave of the hand, pointing to their own findings that indicated that someone forged the James inscription for profit. The ill will between the two sides overflowed several times, as each blamed the other of conspiracy, misdeed and bad faith.

. . .

Golan contends his mother partly cleaned and scrubbed the inscription, perhaps with hot water, something that could explain the oxygen isotopes.

To support Golan, Jacobovici screened for the first time an interview with Amos Bein, the director of the Israel Geological Survey- the research institute that provided the IAA with the patina proof- in which Bein says Golan's explanation is plausible.

"When I hear the owner saying that people had tried to beautify the object by cleaning it or carrying out other actions, it is possible that by carrying out these actions we would get the same results," Bein said.

"If you ask me how this film could artificially appear, if someone deliberately or wanting to clean it were to clean it and then scrub it with hot water and add lots of hot water and then give it enough time for the chalk to settle into the patina, you would see the same results," Bein said.

. . .

Jacobovici questioned the motives of the IAA panel, asking why there were no Christians or New Testament scholars on the panel.

"You are so determined for your own little reasons to disqualify it, you were not sensitive to the fact that it is very important to so many billions of people," Jacobovici said.

Doctor X · 07-28-2003, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Jacobovici questioned the motives of the IAA panel, asking why there were no Christians or New Testament scholars on the panel.

ARRRGGGHHHH!!!!!

[Breath. In. Out. "Happy Place," go to your "Happy Place."--Ed.]

--J.D.

Steven Carr · 07-28-2003, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto

Golan contends his mother partly cleaned and scrubbed the inscription, perhaps with hot water, something that could explain the oxygen isotopes.

Was that before or after she went at it with a knife, or whatever sharp instrument it was cleaned with?

How many professional collectors of antiquities give their 2,000 year old relics to their mothers to give them a good old-fashioned scrubbing?

Doctor X · 07-28-2003, 10:12 PM

I find my turpentine does wonders for removing dust and grime from my Manet. . . .

Many years ago, I did cause a "scene" at "foo foo" an antique dealer because it had a samurai sword which one of the clown sharpened on a grinder!!

Anyways, I had to laugh at the idea of a dealer in ANTIQUITIES allowing "Mom" to go after it with her Brillo [Tm.--Ed.]!

--J.D.

Koyaanisqatsi · 07-29-2003, 01:27 AM

Say, where did luvluv go....?

No matter. As someone else posted, I'm sure it will be used two or five or ten years from now and claimed as a "controversial relic that many believe is..."

Just like the Shroud.

Ah well. If one is desperate enough to believe in fairy god kings to begin with, what's to stop them from believing in another fraud?

Vorkosigan · 07-29-2003, 02:58 AM

Quote:

"If you ask me how this film could artificially appear, if someone deliberately or wanting to clean it were to clean it and then scrub it with hot water and add lots of hot water and then give it enough time for the chalk to settle into the patina, you would see the same results," Bein said.

Yes, it would certainly change the microfossils from one species to another.

In any case, you can see the next line of defense emerging: it's all a Jewish conspiracy against Christianity. Golan is a victim of his own people. It wouldn't surprise me if Golan "converts" in the next few months. Would be a good tactic.

Vorkosigan

Doctor X · 07-29-2003, 03:18 AM

Well it would be in keeping with the grand tradition of prisoners "finding Jesus" soon after incarceration.

--J.D.

Koyaanisqatsi · 07-29-2003, 03:42 AM

You do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around, that's what christianity is all about!

Doctor X · 07-29-2003, 03:55 AM

No . . . no . . . that happens in the prison shower where [Right! Stop that!--Ed.]

--J.D.

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07-28-2003, 10:12 PM	#45
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	I find my turpentine does wonders for removing dust and grime from my Manet. . . . Many years ago, I did cause a "scene" at "foo foo" an antique dealer because it had a samurai sword which one of the clown sharpened on a grinder!! Anyways, I had to laugh at the idea of a dealer in ANTIQUITIES allowing "Mom" to go after it with her Brillo [Tm.--Ed.]! --J.D.

07-29-2003, 01:27 AM	#46
Koyaanisqatsi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Yes, I have dyslexia. Sue me. Posts: 6,508	Say, where did luvluv go....? No matter. As someone else posted, I'm sure it will be used two or five or ten years from now and claimed as a "controversial relic that many believe is..." Just like the Shroud. Ah well. If one is desperate enough to believe in fairy god kings to begin with, what's to stop them from believing in another fraud?

07-29-2003, 03:18 AM	#48
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Well it would be in keeping with the grand tradition of prisoners "finding Jesus" soon after incarceration. --J.D.

07-29-2003, 03:42 AM	#49
Koyaanisqatsi Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Yes, I have dyslexia. Sue me. Posts: 6,508	You do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around, that's what christianity is all about!

07-29-2003, 03:55 AM	#50
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	No . . . no . . . that happens in the prison shower where [Right! Stop that!--Ed.] --J.D.

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