CX

The fact that we don't really know what it said before the 4th century when the church had established it's hegemony and competing or "unorthodox" views were exterminated.

Skeptical

</strong>

My favorite example is <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/quirinius.html" target="_blank">this</a>, I think it is the clearest example of a contradiction from the NT and has the least "wiggle room" since it is very difficult to argue with the dates.

However, I doubt your literalists will be swayed. Someone who takes the entire OT/NT literally has enough cognitive dissonance going on in their head that the chances they will listen to anything you care to point out approaches zero. The already have their minds made up, so don't confuse them with the facts.

Amen-Moses

My favourites in the NT are when JC contradicts himself or in the OT when El or Jehovah (so stone me!) or whatever he calls himself does the same.

Amen-Moses

Baidarka

Hey Bubba

Hows this?

In Mathew Judas throws the Blood money back into the temple and the priests buy land with the money
In Acts Judas buys the land with the money

In Mathew Judas hangs himself
In Acts Judas falls and busts open on his ill gotten land.

In Mathew the priests name the land that they buy with Judas’ money, “Field of Blood” because of the Blood Money that the land was purchased with.
In Acts the land is named “Field of Blood” by the people of Jerusalem after Judas’ own blood which he spilled on the land.

Mathew 27:3
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty silver coins to the chief priests and the elders. 4"I have sinned," he said, "for I have betrayed innocent blood."
"What is that to us?" they replied. "That's your responsibility."
5So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.
6The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." 7So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. 8That is why it has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9Then what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: "They took the thirty silver coins, the price set on him by the people of Israel, 10and they used them to buy the potter's field, as the Lord commanded me."[1]

Acts 1:18
18(With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'[4]

offa

offa; Judas Iscariot was crucified along with Jesus. When he "hung himself" it was not a "rope around the neck". He was hung along with Jesus and Magus. The cave was located alongside the "Dead Sea" and it had a window toward the sea. This cave was a toilet and the window was to throw the scoop of decrement out to the shore far below. If you were interned in this cave with a rock covering the opening you could not escape through this window because there was no way but down, a drop to your death. If you lit a candle in this cave it can be seen from slightly below on a different plateau. Alongside this cave is another carved out by human hands and the cavern in between is called "Abraham's Bosum".
Judas was pushed through this window and fell to his death below. He was a traitor. The three men crucified were carried to the same cave and they were all alive.

Steven Carr

One insignificant person commits suicide and everybody in Jerusalem hears about it and decide to rename the field for evermore.

Jesus raises people from the dead, feeds 5,000, creates a disturbance in the Temple and no contemporary thinks it worth writing about.

You would think they could at least name a street after him, when one of his disciples managed to get a whole field.

Vorkosigan

LOL!

Hey Bubba, there's another thread around here on Errancy, and I posted some good resources in it, the TSR, the Skeptics annotated bible, and Bib Errancy, McKinsey's mag.

V

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Vorkosigan ]</p>

Baidarka

Offa

I appreciate a good crack pot theory as well as the next guy. But please try to elaborate, site sources, give some sort of explanation.
If I were to assert that Bill Clinton had Foster killed, like so many mindless conspiracy theorists do, than I would be obligated to give a coherent explanation other wise you and everyone else would be right to simply dismiss my statement as noise.
Why was Judas crucified and by whom?
How was it that all 3 men survived crucifixion?
Who pushed Judas out the window?
Where did you get this stuff from?
At least the Kennedy assassination conspiracy theorists try to convince us that they are basing their wild theories on something.
If you are basing this on a book please say so and give us some inkling of an explanation.
If you are receiving divine revelations let us know so that we can get you some help.
You are simply asserting wild things as if you were a witness!
Wait a second. How old are you?

Vampyroteuthis

Good question there, Baidarka. Where did that information come from, I'd like to read it. And just my opinion, Bubba, but you're wasting time. You cannot have a logical discussion with people who are not logical. Good luck on your endevor!

Aimee

Vinnie

I just wrote up a 26 page paper on Inerrancy and errors in the Bible

First 3 and 1/2 pages lay out preliminary thoughts on all the lists of objections and commonly cited ones.

I spend the next 6 or seven pages highlighting what I feel are 4 clearer and very hard to harmonize errors in the bible.

After that I discuss various views on inspiration, fundamentalism vs evangelicalism, I note the problems in the typical evangelical route to innerancy etc.

it will be up online later tonight. I printed it and proofed it and I am making the typos and errors and other booboos go away.


This was my first error:

Alzheimer’s Disease and its Four Errors.

#1. The Baptist’s infliction of Alzheimer’s Disease and the Messiah.

The first error involves Jesus and John the Baptist. Critical scholars across the board recognize that the Christian tradition is somewhat uneasy with John baptizing Jesus and the relationship between the two. This is especially clear from the baptism accounts and the various texts subordinating John and exalting Jesus over him (e.g. Lukan infancy narrative). This is where our problem develops though.

Form a synthesis of the baptism accounts this scenario is reaveled: John is baptizing people and his message is that one greater than him will come whom he is not worthy to untie the strap on his sandals. He is preparing the way for one who will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire. People were actually wondering if John was the Christ but he was preaching the good news of the one to come whose winnowing fork will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire." Luke specifically says John was preaching the good news.

From John 3 and 4 we know that Jesus’ disciples baptized with Jesus with them. John’s disciples were somewhat jealous it seems (not explicitly stated in the text) and report to John that the man whom he testified about was baptizing with his disciples and everyone was going to him. John responds with “A man can receive only what is given him from heaven. You yourselves can testify that I said, 'I am not the Christ but am sent ahead of him.' The bride belongs to the bridegroom. The friend who attends the bridegroom waits and listens for him, and is full of joy when he hears the bridegroom's voice. That joy is mine, and it is now complete. He must become greater; I must become less. The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all.”

John clearly knew Jesus was the Christ here, the Messiah to come. The text also specifically states this was before John was put in prison. We should also note that John baptized Jesus as well according to the Synoptics and John. In the Synoptics Jesus comes to him to be baptized and John tried to deter him saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" But Jesus said it needed to be done to fufill all righteousness and John consented. As Jesus was coming up out of the water and praying the heavens tore open and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: "You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased."

There are a few differences in GJohn’s portrait. JBap specicfically says look at the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world in GJohn. Its interesting to note the differences between the account in the Synoptics and GJohn.

Anyways, the point I wanted to establish from all this was the fact that John the baptist clearly knows who Jesus is according to one tradition in scripture! This tradition however runs into a brick wall, or rather, another antithetical tradition:

In Matthew 11:2-6 and Luke 7:18-23 we find out that John the Baptist, who is now in prison is inquiring as to whether Jesus is the Christ or not.

Matthew 11:2: When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples 3to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"

This appears to be a flat out contradiction between the Biblical accounts as John is already describes as knowing Jesus was the Christ and already proclaimed his as the one to come after him and as the lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

This seems to be a very clear error and if inerrancy advocates think its not then I would love to have my inbox flooded with attempted resolutions ;-)

Vinnie