NOGO

I fully understand that for people like yoursel reason alone will never set you straight. You call my statements gratuitous and slanderous but do not state which comments are gratuitous and slanderous nor do you state why you consider them as such. For my part all that I have stated is factual and true.

You err. I did nor ever will waste my time making denials or act holy. I leave that kind of thing to believers.

I did not say that I was sinless. I stated that the concept of sin does not make sense to me and that it is certainly not part of my way of thinking. It is all part of your world not mine. I reject the concept of sin as I reject Christianity.

I did not get intangled in the guilt trip which keeps so many people prisoners of religion.

I do not hunger for righteousness nor do I declare myself righteous. You view my comments from the point of view of your misguided Christian mindset.

Righteousness exists because the concept of sin exists. I reject teh concept of sin and therefore I reject the concept of righteousness.

I do not feel guilty for errors that I have made. I know that this is so foreign to you that you cannot possibly understand it.

You seek deliver from sin. I have that already.
This is not saying that I do not make errors. I do not feel guilt for honest errors that I make. You do because of Christianity.

That is the Christian trap. They first make you feel guilty not only for sins but also for just existing. Then they promise you salvation from sin. They put you in a cage and then promise you the key.

I refused to get into the cage. I am free and that is why all this nonsense that you preach has no effect on me.

Starboy

Well said NOGO!

luvluv

Biff the unclean:

I'd try to convert EVERYBODY, tough guy, that's not the point. The point is I wouldn't call any of them dishonest, stupid, gullible, or sheep, even if they decided to stick to their original religions. I'd respectfully disagree and think no less of them.

Rhea:

a) I don't know what the point of this question is. The only thing I was suggesting is that some of you are needlessly antagonistic and borderline bigoted against theists. You occasionally make ungrounded, angry, bigoted statements. Is that in dispute?

b) Yes I extend the proverbial olive leaf to the Raelians. I disagree with them but I do not assume that they are all stupid, uninformed, immoral, or sheep. They may be weird, but I have no reason to believe (generally speaking) that they have not arrived at that weirdness via sincerity.

Family Man:

Yeah, right now I'd imagine that you associate me with the term "dispenser of intellectual butt-whipings."

Hey, I am human, and occasionally I lose it with some of you folks around here. But the difference between what I do and what lpetrich just did was that you all have to earn my contempt as individuals, I don't degrade you as a class simply because you happen to be atheists. That would be bigotry.

Starboy

luvluv, I'd have more respect for Christians if they didn't try to convert anybody. If someone comes to you and asks about your religion well then fine, preach away but why presume that anybody cares about what you have to say about your god? Many people see proselytizing as a thoughtless act and deserving of contempt. Living in a sea of such thoughtless people that call themselves Christians is enough to make anyone bigoted. Christians suck!

Starboy

luvluv

Have you stopped to notice that you live in a free country? Most Christians I know don't make a habit of proselytizing complete strangers, but if asked anything related they have no problem in speaking about what their faith is in, JUST LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE. I'm sure everyone you talk to doesn't want to hear about how science has rocked your world, but you probably tell them when it comes up.

Regardless, nothing excuses bigotry. If I said, hey, I'd respect black people if they stopped raping white women, would you consider that a reasoned argument or plain racism?

Would you ever have the gonads to say something like "Jews suck"? Nope. Becuase the Nazi's have generally speaking woken people up to the perils of anti-semitism. (I'd imagine Hitler might have said something like, "I'd respect the Jews if they would stop trying to take over the world.") Unfortunately, you see nothing bigoted or discriminatory in a statement like, "Christians suck" and in that respect you are no better than any other bigot. Certain Christians suck, this is indisputable, but to say that Christians as a class suck would simply be prejudicial.

For instance, I don't suck.

Starboy

oops double post.

Starboy

Free country? Free for whom, Christians? Free for them to beak the law, to flaunt the constitution. The seal of the state of Florida displays the words “In God We Trust”. I am sure you know what is on the currency. How about the California Supreme Court case where the words ‘under god’ were declared unconstitutional? Yet our Christian president who represents us all, atheists included, fought it. Where I live Christians do tell total strangers what to do and think! They do proselytize their subordinates and students. And they get away with it! They steal from their churches, and they con their flock out of money by telling them that they have a god given investment opportunity. They get away with outright fraud and lies because they are men of gawd and pillars of the community.

I don’t have to say Jews suck, because they don’t tell me to go to synagogue, they don’t seek to have displayed on our money “In Yahweh we trust”, and they do not try to convert me to their religion. Oh and if a Rabbi were caught defrauding their followers the good Christians of this country would not think twice about throwing him in jail. Wake up. Smell the coffee. Christians SUCK!

Starboy

Family Man

No, I think of you as someone who doesn't understand that he received a intellectual butt-whipping. Especially when you don't even seem to understand that a small finite number of properly basic beliefs are completely overwhelmed by the infinite number of non-properly basic beliefs. The Master of the Trivial and Irrelevant Philosophical Concepts, that's you, which is why it was time to end that absurdity of a thread.

I would have no problem with anyone reviewing that thread. No one would come back from reading the tripe you were peddling and think you had any class.

wade-w

Keep it civil, people. Stop the personal comments, now!

Radorth

Re: the voice of reason:

A few have I hope. Others claim we have to remove all the crosses from soldiers' plots in public cemeteries, remove all biblical inscriptions from public libraries and monuments, such as Washington's, and remove even crucifixes on churches which at least one skeptic claims "assault" him when he drives by.

Oh yes, and the President has to stop using even generic terms for God such as "Almighty" or "Providence" or "Creator" as Washington and the rest of the founders did. (Yeah I know: the Declaration of Independence is not a legal document, blah blah)

In other words, we must do whatever a 2% freaked out minority says will make them feel "free," regardless of our culture or traditions, or what the founders manifestly found acceptable and even efficacious. These skeptics would never call Iraq a "free" country as long as a judge could say "And may Allah have mercy on your soul." I assume they would apply the same progressive standards (except there they would be assaulted, and not by an immobile crucifix).

The irony is that the narrow-minded, bigotted Christians here could probably care less whether they speak openly of Allah or swear on the Koran.

I'm sorry to break out of your little box there Starboy but I NEVER talk about my beliefs to ANYONE unless they ask. Where do you live? Next to a Mormon church or something? You apparently have call apologetics and expressing our beliefs in direct response to atheist assertions "proselytizing." If I wanted to evangelize, I would be busy sending PM's to agnostics here, but that is not the case.

Rad