Amos

Hi jaliet, I have my grandsons on my lap and they want me to play games with them (forever).

"Myth is real" and only Disneyfied myths are not real. Myth describes metamorphosis and is real but not experienced by all. The process is native to man and therefore universal and transparent between mythologies. The spiritual [mature] man has been through this event. In our mythology he will have been a Catholic or a Jew in which religion served him as a means to the end. The end is Christian and no longer Catholic or Jew or there would be churches in the New Jerusalem. For them the book of Revelation is history and they live/lived in the Thousand year Reign (reign of God). The thousand year reign ends when they physically die and refers only to the insight they have into their own soul which is incarnate upon them for up to one thousand years (Hardy's "Voices from the Graveyard"). We see this often in literature as with Einstein, Hardy, Shakespeare, Jesus, Newton etc. Gogol actually wrote "he has no equal, he is God" in "Dead Souls" which is a comedy of the absurd. Most authors describe this but few actually declare it.

<strong>How do you know that myths are the preserve of the spiritually mature?</strong>

Myths were written by mythmakers and all mythmakers have the mind of God. Mythmakers are gnostic but perhaps to a greater depth which is made clear with the difference beween the age of Methuselah and others that did not have the ability to trace their own ancestry within their own mind. This in turn is the purpose of the "lineage parables." It is actually true that the Gospels must be prior to us by nature and second to us in the bible before they can make sense to us (Jn.5:39-40). In ohter words, we should be able to write our own Gospel as our personal account of the period between rebirth and resurrection (purgatory) so we can give an account of both "the old [our soul] and the new [our conscious mind]." <strong>

Please define spiritual maturity.
How do you determine spiritual maturity? what factors are considered? Who decides/ judges people's spiritual maturity?

Are you a spiritually mature man?

What about women? are they also capable of spiritual maturity?</strong>

Spiritual maturity is to be able to "give an account of the old and the new." It is "to reign with him and judge the living from the dead" etc.
Nobody decides because we do it on our own (the key to the kingdom is understanding the old and incorporating the new with the old). I am not part of the argument and women (as in females) can at best have correct opinion. Females make great mystics (lyrical vision) but never gnostics (noetic vision) or God would be negative and earth positive to make X the fleeting chromosome.
This goes back to "woman taken from man" (without first having been created in Gen.1) to make woman the womb of man and "assumption" as opposed to "ascention" possible. Nothing is blurred in heaven because of this and is why virgin birth, perpetual virginity, Mary theotokos immaculate conception and others are appropriate terms for the purity of woman (I realize that I am mixing physics here with metaphysics). Spiritual maturity is nothing to boast about but only to benefit from.<strong>

When you say "reserved for them", do you mean that this fictitious person/thing called God was concoted by spiritually mature men or do you mean one has to be spiritually mature to undestand the myth that is God?</strong>

One must have the mind of God to comprehend the concept God. Since we all have the potential to become God it is very easy for us to relate to the concept God. Mythmakers understand this and use it to their advantage to attract followers. Understand here that involution must precede evolution and so the advantage mythmakers seek is stimilating activity during involution (sin) and later recall this in evolution (heaven) for purification (alchemy). <strong>

The second premise fails (or contradicts the first one) because it implies that God is not a myth but an entity that can be manifested physically.</strong>

The concept God is myth but real and becomes manifest in the seond cause "man" as "Lord God." For this man must come full circle in the omega and journey from "man" to divide and become "human/woman" and return to "fully man."<strong>

But where is the evidence that shows Jesus was a physical manifestation of the mythical figure called God?</strong>

Jesus was the mythical figure born from Joseph. This makes Jesus the reborn the carpenter and the name Jesus was given to him by mythmakers to signify the changed man (metanoia). Jesus was not God during the Gospels but had the potential to become fully God after the exploration of his own soul. This is what the miracles and "hilltop" (inspired moments) stories are all about.<strong>

Where is this mythical figure called God? Is he resident on planet earth? Is he visible? </strong>

Easy answer, omnipresent. Omnipresence requires presence first and all has an existence of being is called God. Existence of being requires omniscience (has no opposite in itself) and thus all omniscient beings are potent and therefore are omnipotent.<strong>

If you believe he is mythical, why believe that something you know is a myth, is true?</strong>

Because myth is true.

Amos

HelenM

jaliet

This is what Mirriam-Webster's Online says:
I don't see anything there that categorically states a myth must be untrue. Are you sure about your definition - with all due respect?

I agree that many people are implying 'untrue' when they say 'myth'. But from reading this definition I still don't see that the definition inherently means 'untrue'.

As far as not trying to claim an untrue story is true, well, I would agree with you that that's pointless. But in terms of the actual definition of 'myth' it still seems to me that a 'myth' is not false, by definition. Only by - being false.

love
Helen

Ted Hoffman

Helen
Heres 'mine from Dictionary.com:
I have highlighted relevant sections:

myth (mth)
n.

A traditional, typically ancient story dealing with supernatural beings, ancestors, or heroes that serves as a fundamental type in the worldview of a people, as by explaining aspects of the natural world or delineating the psychology, customs, or ideals of society: the myth of Eros and Psyche; a creation myth.
Such stories considered as a group: the realm of myth.
A popular belief or story that has become associated with a person, institution, or occurrence, especially one considered to illustrate a cultural ideal: a star whose fame turned her into a myth; the pioneer myth of suburbia.
A fiction or half-truth, especially one that forms part of an ideology.
A fictitious story, person, or thing: “German artillery superiority on the Western Front was a myth” (Leon Wolff).

Either way, at best, a myth is used to do one thing or another. To teach, intimidate, indoctrinate, entertain etc.
With all due respect.

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: jaliet ]</p>

HelenM

Fair enough, jaliet.

Have a great weekend!

love
Helen

Ted Hoffman

Amos
Let me see if I get you right.

1. Women are not capable of being spiritually mature.

2. One must start as either a Jew or a Catholic in order to attain spiritual maturity (become a christian)

3. Spiritually mature people live the 1000 years talked about in revelation.

4. Mythmakers have no minds of their own: they have the mind of God.

5. Spiritual maturity is to be able to "give an account of the old and the new." (new what? dont bother)

6. Spiritual maturity is "to reign with him and judge the living from the dead" etc.

7. Nothing is blurred in heaven because woman was taken from man.

8. One must have the mind of God to comprehend the concept God. Amos comprehends God because he has the mind of God. God, is a mythical concept that is real.

9. Jesus was the mythical figure born from Joseph

10.Myths are true.

After reading what you are saying, I have concluded that you are either joking or delusional.

But let me give you the benefit of doubt.

Why should I believe what you say about spiritually mature people?

Where is the evidence that shows that S. Mature people have the mind of God?

How do I identify the mind of God? What are the characteristics associated with it?

Since you are a mythmaker, since when have you had the mind of God?

How can you have the mind of what you have called a concept? Do concepts have minds?

When did man come to know the concept God?

You say we all have the potential to become a concept(God). How do you know this? where is the evidence for this?

Amos, you must know that everything you say must be supported and if you continue making arbitrary statements like some kind of a God without supporting them, you will be wasting the both of our times.

You have now moved from sophistry to pontificating sophistry.

HelenM

jaliet

That people can create myths - that they can do anything creative, in fact - would be seen by theists as part of them being made in the image of a creative God, I daresay. God the Creator, in fact.

I'm not sure whether this has anything to do with what Amos is thinking but - nevertheless - it occurred to me as I read your response to him.

love
Helen

Amos

As I wrote before, I am not a scientist and if you want scientific evidence you'll have to look for it yourself. I should add that most of what I write is existing science and all we really need is one philosopher to put it all in the right context with each other. Right, that is why Plato held that soft sciences were useless.

Amos

[ February 01, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

Ted Hoffman

Amos
I am not impressed by baseless ideas Amos, however flowery. You know, I have an old illiterate Granny who is a real good storyteller and frankly if all I needed were stories about souls and reincarnations and mythical figures, I'd simply sit at her feet at the fireside and listen.

Your stories are real nice, especially with the pseudo-philosophical (so called spiritual knowledge) garb sprinkled with biblical allusions and sweeping generalizations (there are no spiritually mature women therefore women cannot be spiritually mature) bombastic poetry etc.

I actually dont have a problem with storytelling. Its just that what I need at the moment are claims backed by evidence.

Thank you for your time. I know you meant well and I wish you the best in your road to spiritual maturity.

Albert, are you there?

Helen
What theists choose to "see" in what people do, Helen, means very little to me unless they can support what they claim to see with well-supported arguments.

In other words, I am more interested in what actually IS, than what people choose to see.

[ February 02, 2002: Message edited by: jaliet ]</p>

HelenM

Ted Hoffman

Helen
Thank you. I respect that too. Have a beautiful weekend.