meritocrat

That's the best explanation I've heard so far.

Thanks.

emotional

I don't think the spiritual body (which is what is left after the material body dies - I don't believe in physical resurrection) can have food, booze and sex. Those are material, carnal things, and the spiritual, discarnate body has no use for them.

Normal

A liberal xian might interpret the passage as refering only to the ten commandments.

But the question is would you throw out all aspects of Russell's philosophy because you disagree with one aspect? The same can be said for liberal xian's following Jesus.

emur

In practice though, this comes down to the Christian doing what his/her leader, pastor says God wants humans to do. Thus freedom exists only within the framework that the leader permits, and as a result, isn't freedom at all.

Mel

AJ113

Is this another one of your irrational beliefs, arrived at without the application of reasoned thought?

Milton

That would only be possible by applying an extremely (illogically) literal application of the word. Which is also being completely irrational by rejecting the context.

Calzaer

But why? There's absolutely nothing special about what we call "the 10 commandments". Why not just keep going to the end of Exodus 34 and call them The Three-Dozen Commandments? Why are those particular laws THE ten? There's nothing special about them, from a Biblical perspective. There's not a damn thing special about those commandments compared to all the rest of them. The Jews only pay passing recognition to those ten. The Catholics use a different grouping system for those ten that the Protestants do. Charismatics say the 10 are in Deuteronomy, not Exodus. It's completely arbitrary. Moses didn't stop given commandments at "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's ass", he kept right on talking.

Perhaps they're just the only 10 from the OT (out of hundreds) that modern-day society finds acceptable?

HelenM

Despite what you say, conservative Christians distance themselves from groups where the leader assumes the authority to tell people what to do and not to do. They would call that a cult, not a church.

My pastor doesn't tell me what to do.

Conservative Christians do have a framework but, so do most people - most people choose to limit their freedom in various ways; for example, many people choose to limit their freedom to eat all the time and not exercise, in order not to gain weight. Many people choose to limit their freedom to neglect or mistreat their children. Most people have the freedom to mess up their own lives but the wise ones choose not to. Some people who claim to be making the most of their freedom are doing all sorts of self-destructive things that they will probably regret greatly, in the long term.

Helen

emur

I was once a conservative Christian, and a pastor to boot! When I was in a conservative Presbyterian denomination, I had to accept all of the tenets of Calvinism or get kicked out. And because I didn't accept the CEO model of ministry, I was looked down on as weak and too sensitive. There was some leeway on some issues of course, but on others you towed the line or out you went. There was tremendous pressure to conform.

As a member of a conservative Baptist group, the same mindset existed. Only the issues were different. Baptism by immersion was a must, or out you went. And image was huge. You had better live your life before others in the way the leader of the group said, or else.

Understand Helen, these groups were not cults. Both were mainstream evangelical groups.

The sad reality is, except in liberal groups where I have ministered, there was little freedom of conscience.


I'm glad. However, I wonder if that would be true if you stepped outside the boundaries established by your church. Maybe not in your church's case, but in many, many conservative churches and groups, those boundaries are narrow.

At least they have the freedom to limit their choices.

Mel

HelenM

There's pressure to conform everywhere. Ever had a job? Ever been at school? I hope you're not going to claim that such pressure only exists inside the walls of a conservative church. There's even pressure to conform on IIDB. There are plenty of people on IIDB who seem quite ready and willing to ridicule and mock theists just for being theists. When there was an RRP board on here it was 'cool' to see who could come up with the best insult for the theist currently being made fun of. There would be more of that on here now if it were for moderators stepping in when insults start flying. (To be fair, it's not just theists who get insulted here - I realize that).

You know what you experienced and I'm not going to try to argue with you over it.

At my church people who teach commit to upholding church beliefs in what they teach.

I see that as a far cry from being 'told what to do'. After all, no-one has to teach.

It depends what you mean. They don't tie me onto a rack and force me to repeat things after them. They don't follow me around and see what I do when I'm not at church.

So do I.

Helen