HaysooChreesto!

I've brought this topic up in regards to the "communist dirty word" thread started a couple of days ago.

There are several here who are believers in Marxist theory and I would like to hear their opinions on why communism in practice has not suceeded.
I understand that one generally held belief is that power mad dictators abused their power (which I too believe) and that's why destitution ensued.
But there has to be more to it than that. Doesn't it?
It appears that historically, and with few and minute exceptions, that communist revolutions have resulted in tragedy.

I'm not trying to start a flame war, I'm just trying to learn more about how people of an ideology opposed to mine think.
Thanks for any responses.

August Spies

well im not a communist but I can guess what there answer will be:

Communism hasn't really been tried, or was subverted quickly.

and really this isn't far fetched, the first attempts at republics failed or succumbed to counter-revolutions.

HaysooChreesto!

Once again, I ask, why? What is it that makes communism so susceptible to falling apart? I guess I'm looking for what I would perceive to be a more concrete common thread.

August Spies

I am willing to bet you that "democracy" has fallen to dictators more often than communism has. Why aren't you asking why democracy has failed so much?

look, new societies take a little bit of time to iron out. Communism has never been trtied. There has never even been an ironing out period. So what are you asking? Why have so many dictators done thingsin the name of Communism? Hitler did things in the name of democracy.

Godbert

Easy, people evolved to be selfish. So noone will work as hard (or at all) for the common good as he would for his personal benefit.
There is no reward for working hard and no punishment for doing almost nothing so basically noone does anything more than the required minimum. This is enough to survive I guess but it has to lead to loosing ground economically on competing capitalist societies. When the material differences between the two systems become too large the population in the communist society starts craving for the luxury of the capitalist society, leading to a vicious circle of isolation, repression and more discontentment.
I grew up in 'communism'. During the change everyone was shouting they wanted freedom and democracy - maybe that was the main point for some people, but I havn't met any of them. It was all about vacationing in spain, multiple TV channels, nice cars, exotic fruit....

August Spies

"people evolved to be selfish. "

id call that regression.

HaysooChreesto!

Because I'm asking about communism.

Godbert

I guess 'evolved to be selfish' doesn't really hit it on the head either. After all all life had and has to be 'selfish' to survive. It's like the definition of life and also how life arose to multiply and prosper at the cost of other, less well adapted life. Although I guess cyanobacteria are quite nice overall. Actually if someday more efficient cyanobacteria come along they probably won't think twice about driving their old comrades off the planet. I might be digressing

August Spies

Because I'm asking about communism.

I guess you misssed my point. All political ideas fail when they are intially tried. And communism has not even been tried.

HaysooChreesto!

No I didn't miss your point. I'm just trying to keep this topic as focused as possible (not that I'm not guilty of drifting off any given topic ).

Now, when you say that communism hasn't been tried, how do you qualify that? Mao brought Marxist ideals to China. Mao and his followers suffered greatly and for many years to do so. They called themselves "Communists". Did they not?
I find it similar to people who call themselves Christians but when confronted with Xtian history will say "well, those weren't REAL Christians".
I call myself an atheist, so when on the subject of theism/atheism that's what I am. My wife considers herself a Christian, so in those regards that's what I consider her.

So if you want to take an example like China or North Korea or any example of your choice, please do. Like I said in my OP, I am trying to learn what other people think.