Dr Rick

No question about that, but one does have to be in a constant state of denial to disbelieve it. A doctor who understands basic science research or antibiotic resistance cannot really do either without a fundamental knowledge of evolution.

lpetrich

However, the usual creationist escape from such clear counterevidence is "that's not really evolution." Imagine this dialogue:

C: Evolution doesn't happen!!!!!

E: However, there are legions of evidence of it happening, such as bacteria becoming resistant to antibiotics, and so forth.

C: All those examples are not really evolution!!!

Kaina

I work with doctors, oncologists, at a major medical facility and I would venture that every single one of them "believes" in evolution. Why? Because we see evolution in action every single day.

Patient comes in with cancer, is treated with nasty poisons and radiation that just about kill the patient and kill (if we're lucky) 99% of the tumor. Wait a while and the patient returns (if it's a glioma we can expect to see them again in maybe 2 months), and guess what, the cancer is back. Only this time the chemo and the RT don't do much of anything. Why is that? The population of cancer cells that grows back show mutations and changes in gene frequency that are beneficial for the individual cells (though not the patient) and allow them to thrive where most of their progenitors died.

How can you possibly explain this effect by invoking THE FALL? Please try, I've been following the discussion with great interest.

BLoggins02

It's easy Kaina, all things are possible with the LORD!

Especially, as it seems, Really Really BAD Things

scigirl

I think it's rather easy for doctors to be intelligent designers. Heck, every now and then I am tempted! (well. . . only for a nanosecond). The body is an extraordinarily complex system. This is a fact. Unfortunately, creationists often paint a straw man and make it sound like evolutionists are completely ignorant to that fact. And well, doctors can be very arrogant (as can everyone). Believing in creationism is one way to think you are better (God made me in his image, I'm special!)

Donotworry--I do feel that I've been a little harsh on you. Yes you are correct, medicine and modern science do not have all the answers. There are other aspects of medicine, such as holistic healing, alternative medicine, acupuncture, etc. which are not necessarily "accepted" by the medical community, but could very well be true. Scientists should be more-open minded to new ideas and discoveries while keeping a healthy dose of skepticism ready.

But what you are talking about--the evolution creation debate--is not one of these examples. In order for a doctor to accept the possibility that echinasea works, he or she does not have to reject the last 200 years of medical research. He simply has to realize that doctors don't know everything.

To accept any form of young-earth creationism necessitates that you reject fundamental principles of physics, chemistry, geology, paleontology, biology, and genetics. Not just a little, but a lot of scientific principles. Such as radioactive dating, or molecular genetics. Because doctors don't deal with this principles directly (unless they are doing research in which case they are probably not a YEC!), they do not realize what they are rejecting when they reject evolution and an old earth.

Evolutionary theory has the potential to help us understand ourselves. The fundamentalist Christian explanation of human behavior has had nearly 2000 years to give us helpful insights. I think it has outlived its usefulness. "Because of Adam and Eve" just won't cut it anymore.

If humans really want to answer the tough questions (Why are we violent and territorial? Why are some people prone to addictive behaviors? How does disease succepibility relate to immune system genetics as well as environmental factors?) than people are going to have to face the facts of evolution. Studying chimp behavior just might enlighten us about our territorial ways. I challenge you to watch a discovery special about these primates some time. The similarities amaze even the most staunch evolutionist. Did you know that nearly 1/3 of chimp males die from being murdered by another chimp over territory? Does that sound familiar to you, donotworry? Or are you still content with the Genesis explanation?

Understanding how our limbic system has evolved and differentiated from the other mammals will give us insights into complex behaviors such as addiction. Sure, maybe a creationist will just say, "Well, God just made us that way," but they will have to accept the evolutionists conclusions anyway. How many treatments have been discovered because of genesis 1?

And if you ever study the immune system, and how it rapidly adapts to pathogens (which are also adapting right back) it's surprising that we don't evolve even faster! Understanding how our bodies are adapted to survive in spite of a world of microbes makes total sense with the theory of evolution. I study neutrophils, a type of white blood cell that fights off bacteria and fungi. You will find rudimentary neutrophils in more "primitive" animals, which correlates nicely with evolution. In order for mammalian systems to develop, they needed a better way to fight off pathogens so they could live longer. And, well they did.

To all of these questions, evolution can potentially provide us with some insight so we can progress as a human race.

Or we can continue to answer, "It's all cuz of Adam and Eve, let's just pray."

What do you want the future to bring you?

scigirl

Heleilu

Donotworry, how do you explain the current distribution of the 4000+ languages spoken on Earth? All evidence suggests that most language families can be traced back to 6000 BCE or earlier, meaning that humanity has been around far longer.

Valentine Pontifex

And yet there is no small number of medical doctors that are creationists. A non-trivial of there number are made up YEC ranks.

Remember that they dismiss that evolution in action seen everyday as "microevolution."

Also if I read you right, you are from an academic and/or reseach medical facility.
Most doctors are in practices removed from
any kind of day-to-day research. There is no reason why a creationist can't be a GP or a surgeon for that matter. Heck even research doctors can be creationist. Of course it can lead to dumb things like putting in a baboon heart into a human baby.

Valentine Pontifex

What is even worse is the flood.
Noah's Ark would have to carry all disease pathogens and parasites. Thus Noah, his wife, his three sons, and their three wives (eight in all) would have to carry every single germ, virus, and parasite that requires a human host.

And of course with only eight people one could not explain human genetic diversity. Assuming that Noah's sons were adapted (to be very nice) means that there are only 16 different alleles per loci possible. And since the humans were species with the most representives on the Ark it is kind of hard to explain why humans have so little genetic diversity compared to most other animals. (And at creation humanity could only have 4 different alleles per loci; two each for Adam and Eve.)