Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lisarea · 03-14-2003, 08:06 AM

I've always sort of wondered how people who believe this can actually sit around praying for shit like new cars and sporting victories in light of the belief that god can be petitioned for the safe return of kidnapped children and such.

Unfortunately, my mother is actively trying to keep me away from her friend who believes that god stole a car battery for her.

TomboyMom · 03-14-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jewel
I was thinking the same thing yesterday when I read about Elizabeth Smart being found and all the credit going to prayer and gawd. How inconsiderate to all the parents whose child was never recovered alive or at all. Ya, I guess they weren't xtian enough or didn't pray hard enough to get their child back. It sickens me.

-Jewel

And speaking of Elizabeth Smart, << The sources said Mitchell, who left the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the late 1990s, was �strongly� extremist in his religious views and had been preaching to officers during his interrogation... He saw himself as a �prophet� who was paid by God, they said. >>
(excert from MSN.com)

Like many theist criminals, Mithcell's crime was directly related to his religious beliefs. Somehow the bad publicity from crimes of this sort never seems to reflect on the religion or its adherents. But God, and therefore his adherents, get the credit for her rescue, which was actually caused by ordinary people.
I want this kind of PR--credit for everything good that happens, regardless of whether I had anything to do with it, but not blame for my actual misdeeds.

Rene

Jamie_L · 03-14-2003, 09:31 AM

The flip side of this coin, of course, is if God was so benevolent to return this child, why did He allow her to be kidnapped in the first place?

If God had wanted to save the baby in the car crash example, why not just prevent the car crash? I suppose we're supposed to be thanking God for only killing the parents and not the child?

Makes no sense to me.

Jamie

Shadowy Man · 03-14-2003, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamie_L
The flip side of this coin, of course, is if God was so benevolent to return this child, why did He allow her to be kidnapped in the first place?

It's all part of The Plan[tm].

Jamie_L · 03-14-2003, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shadowy Man
It's all part of The Plan[tm].

Which is even funnier/sadder. If it's all in the plan, then what's with all the praying and thanking God? God didn't answer any prayers. It's just part of the plan. Always has been. Just shut up and enjoy the ride. And hope the plan doesn't involve you being drawn and quartered a few years from now.

Jamie

beth · 03-14-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

If it's all in the plan, then what's with all the praying and thanking God? God didn't answer any prayers. It's just part of the plan. Always has been. Just shut up and enjoy the ride. And hope the plan doesn't involve you being drawn and quartered a few years from now.

The whole point to prayer is to try to petition god to change his mind. It's a catch22 because it places the burden on the one who prays and not the one who is supposed to receive the prayers.

christ-on-a-stick · 03-14-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:

If it's all in the plan, then what's with all the praying and thanking God? God didn't answer any prayers. It's just part of the plan. Always has been. Just shut up and enjoy the ride. And hope the plan doesn't involve you being drawn and quartered a few years from now.

Well DUH, we all *know* that "Gawd works in mysterious ways". Which bears a remarkable resemblance to "random shit happens". But it's NOT random! No-sirree! There is a divine plan at work! It just appears to be random, chaotic and entirely arbitrary. But it's not... it's just mysterious. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Rhea · 03-14-2003, 01:52 PM

On a serious note, I have a Christian friend who prays to her God for STRENGTH to deal with whatever the plan is. To me that's the only sort of praying that doesn't creep me out. The only one without the catch 22. Please, help me be satisfied with what's dished out.

thinking gal · 03-17-2003, 04:06 PM

I love "everything happens for a reason." And sometimes we won't know that reason until we get up to heaven. Then there's supposed to be this big revelation as to why you had to go through all that shit in your life. (This and you get to be reunited with all your deceased loved ones.) Makes perfect sense!

David-Unfamous · 03-20-2003, 08:54 AM

I just read a story on Rapture Ready (should I admit that?), about a little girl who'd survived her mother 'accidentally' running her over 4 times in an SUV.

Instead of "Oh my, that's terrible, I'm glad she's ok.", the forum members wrote their praises for God keeping a lookout over her

Now, call me crazy, but if I thought a God was 'looking out' for me, I wouldn't expect to be run over 4 times by my mother.

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03-14-2003, 08:06 AM	#11
lisarea Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Broomfield, Colorado, USA Posts: 5,550	I've always sort of wondered how people who believe this can actually sit around praying for shit like new cars and sporting victories in light of the belief that god can be petitioned for the safe return of kidnapped children and such. Unfortunately, my mother is actively trying to keep me away from her friend who believes that god stole a car battery for her.

03-14-2003, 09:31 AM	#13
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	The flip side of this coin, of course, is if God was so benevolent to return this child, why did He allow her to be kidnapped in the first place? If God had wanted to save the baby in the car crash example, why not just prevent the car crash? I suppose we're supposed to be thanking God for only killing the parents and not the child? Makes no sense to me. Jamie

03-14-2003, 01:52 PM	#18
Rhea Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Recluse Posts: 9,040	On a serious note, I have a Christian friend who prays to her God for STRENGTH to deal with whatever the plan is. To me that's the only sort of praying that doesn't creep me out. The only one without the catch 22. Please, help me be satisfied with what's dished out.

03-17-2003, 04:06 PM	#19
thinking gal Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 15	I love "everything happens for a reason." And sometimes we won't know that reason until we get up to heaven. Then there's supposed to be this big revelation as to why you had to go through all that shit in your life. (This and you get to be reunited with all your deceased loved ones.) Makes perfect sense!

03-20-2003, 08:54 AM	#20
David-Unfamous Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Oxford, UK Posts: 5	I just read a story on Rapture Ready (should I admit that?), about a little girl who'd survived her mother 'accidentally' running her over 4 times in an SUV. Instead of "Oh my, that's terrible, I'm glad she's ok.", the forum members wrote their praises for God keeping a lookout over her Now, call me crazy, but if I thought a God was 'looking out' for me, I wouldn't expect to be run over 4 times by my mother.

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