RufusAtticus

Check out this phrase uttered by socratism today.

"Human beings can make mistakes. The YEC position is sounder than one generated by inferior human intelligence."

Duvenoy

I have already given it a Doozy Award.

Really, you can't make this sort of thing up. You've got to find it or have it thrust upon you.

doov

Vorkosigan

Dee Dee got on my case for a post:

It's significant that anti-Christians everywhere target creationist organisations, showing that they are the only ones that truly are a threat to their faith.

No, we target them because they threaten our civil rights and the civil rights of others. Right-wing Christianity is a cryptofacist movement that is unlimited in its appetite and terrifying in its ineluctable reach for power. Other kinds of Creationism -- pantheistic, psychic, Folk Buddhist, whatever -- we ignore. It's our view that people should be able to believe what they want. That view is not shared by the right-wing fundies in the US.

The sad part is Soc, what you and many who serve this movement do not understand is that when they do finally come to power, you and the ones who supported them will be the first ones shot. Don't you understand? The people who operate your politico-religious movement don't care about your religious beliefs; they are just interested in power. Sincere belief -- right, left, up, down, atheist, Christian, Ba'hai, Last Thursdayist -- is a threat to them. Why do you Stalin shot the Communists in Eastern Europe when the Soviets took over there, and Chiang Kai-shek broke up the right-wing landlords when he moved to Taiwan? Why do you think Hitler finally had to move against the Brownshirts? Because they believed in the permanent Nazi revolution, and Hitler had other plans.

Vorkosigan

So she deleted it and made some comments:

Do you have proof of the utter evil you allege?

Pat Robertson:
There is no such thing as separation of church and state in the Constitution. It is a lie of the Left and we are not going to take it anymore.

The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that's what's been happening.

Robertson says only Christians and Jews are qualified to be officials (and he doesn't mean mainstreamers)
Individual Christians are the only ones really -- and Jewish people, those who trust God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- are the only ones that are qualified to have the reign, because hopefully, they will be governed by God and submit to Him.

Robertson says mainstream churches are the spirit of the antichrist:
You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist

According to Robertson, if this church tribunal did determine the believer had in fact received an authentic message from God -- how they could reach this conclusion without issuing God a suboena wasn't made clear -- then, Robertson said, the church tribunal would have the civil authority to provide the believer with immunity from prosecution.

Robertson's wife on Robertson:
Pat, I've tried to adjust to this 'saved' jag you're on, but you've become a fanatic. All you do is read that Bible all day and sit around and talk to Jesus. I'm a nurse. I recognize schizoid tendencies when I see them, and I think you're sick.

Although Robertson is anti-abortion, he defends China
I don't agree with it ... but ... they've got 1.2 billion people, and they don't know what to do. If every family over there was allowed to have three or four children, the population would be completely unsustainable.... They're doing what they have to do.

Could this be because he has millions invested there? Naw.

Robertson also believes that White People's votes should count more:
I think "one man, one vote," just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights.

I won't get into Robertson's diamond interests in Africa, his dealings with the people who deal with Al Qaeda, his global business empire supported by donations of little old ladies....

I could find a similar set of quotes for almost anyone leading the charge on the Christian Right. And often, a similar set of behaviors. What would like, a discussion on the Pioneer Fund? Richard Scafe and other rightwing businessmen? The links between people like Trent Lott and the billionaire right-wingers who fund racist, authoritarian politics in the US? Dee Dee, do you honestly believe that you guys will get anything you want when you come to power? They'll toss you all a few crumbs, and then get on with the serious business of power and eliminate all who oppose them, included their principled supporters. Like Socrates, I beg you, Dee Dee, to remember their attitude toward their servants.

Also the designation of cryptofascist is simply beyond the line.

Dee Dee, whatever do you think a union of corporate power and right-wing nationalist politics is? In political science it's called facism. Where is the critique of corporate power on the religious right?

I don't think there is anything that needs a full article. I just thought I'd address these comments.

As for "cryptofacist" I used the term to describe a political movement. I specifically exempted Socrates from the label in my post. Specifically. In fact, I delinked your entire movement from the label by specifically referring to unnamed others who operate it. But here's a comment from Soc to me:

"The joke is that another God-hater like Vork thinks he knows better than professional naval architects. Maybe he's been imbibing too much of Saddam's chemical weaponry -- he's enough of an admirer of him."

It is hard for me to find any logic in your position whereby one is not allowed to label a political movement for what it is while excepting people in the conversation, but one can out-and-out name-call other posters facists in such a direct and childish way.

Vorkosigan

*******
What will happened? Film at 11.

I guess the only satisfaction I will derive when the right comes to power is watching the billionaires destroy the Christian Right. Don't thse people understand that revolutions survive by eating their children?

RufusAtticus

No no, Vork, when Socrates wrote his comment he obviously supported it, because why else would the staff agree with him? Clearly you didn't support yours because DDW disagrees with you.

Warcraft3

Always? What do you mean always? He has over 2,000 posts!!!

Over 2,000!!!

And you are saying that every single post to someone he disagrees with contains "some sort of insult, childish animated icon, or personal attack. " Cmon man that is simply not true.

You also say that you "can't remember one time when he's actually presented anything without offensive rhetoric"

Look, Socrates disagrees with me on many issues (and agrees with me on many also) and we have debated each other before. And I am telling you that your "always" comment is simply false, and while your "cant remember one time" comment may reflect your interaction with him, I have not found that to be the case when dealing with him. At least not every single time we have debated.


Russ

Lobstrosity

Well let's see, I started a thread with my second post on TWeb to which Socrates replied by calling me intellectually lazy. He also used both the "dufus" and "dunce" icons in his post. I was perfectly polite and honest with my post and that's the reply I got. I have yet to use an ad hominem against him as far as I can tell, yet he has continually bashed my credentials without even knowing what they are (e.g. "Hah, a non-scientists like yourself dares to instruct a Ph.D. scientist like me" or "Why should a Ph.D. chemist like me listen to a non-chemist like yourself"). The guy clearly has an ego problem which severely limits how much respect he is willing to show anyone who doesn't sufficiently bow down before him.

keyser_soze

And it's not just us that get hammered when we disagree with his use of rant. One of the ministers that comes here to the hospital(I genuinely like the guy . . . and have even gone to his church before) for his "people" asked him to tone it down, and was insulted by both safarti and turkel! Now, I may disagree with organized religion, but when you start downing a PRIEST(probably one of the only decent christians I know...wait, is a priest technically christian since he's catholic?) because he appears to disagree with rude-assed manners and asks if better manners can't be used...well, you just have to ask yourself, WHO DO THESE ASSHOLES RESPECT? I mean, the guy is . . . a decent joe. And on top of which, he's one of the few "christians" around that takes the effort to not only visit his own people, but anyone else that someone indicates could use someone to talk too! Great guy being downed like that is what pissed me off so much I delurked over there in the first place and gave turkel a jab. What an ass! Reminds me of those "soldiers of god" freaks that blow up abortion clinics and shoot nurses and doctors. Cowardly little pricks is what they are.

Rant mode off.

Sauron

Fine.

Then locate five such posts where he failed to exhibit this behavior.

I suggest you pack a lunch; it could be a long investigation....

keyser_soze

No way I would take that challenge....You'd get old trying to accomplish it. But if I did accept it, I'd do a search for his OLDEST posts, I'm sure he probably put some effort into not being such a prick when he first showed up. I would amend the challenge to finding 5 posts WITHIN THE LAST SIX MONTHS(the most drastic decline of TW...well, really it's been really, really bad in the last 3 months or so)

keyser_soze

You ever get the feeling that DD and the rest have just gotten so used to the abusive nature that they really don't see it? I mean, I remember a time when DD seemed like a decent person, not nearly as mean spirited or spiteful. It really seems like Turkel's presence has rubbed off more and more on her, until her posts which used to read mostly normal, have become embittered tirades...Hell if i know.